Legal Kentucky Derby Horse Betting

[Table] IamA Assistant Racehorse Trainer in the UK. If you want to anything about the industry or horse racing in general let me help. AMA!

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Date: 2014-03-22
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Questions Answers
I'm involved in horse welfare and rescue in the USA. Here, owners and trainers rarely make provisions for horses that fail to race well or horses that can no longer race. They are commonly shipped to slaughter in Canada. Is it any different in the UK? Here in the USA, horses are raced as 2 and 3 year olds, despite the fact that no horse is skeletally mature before age 5 or 6. (For perspective for non horse people, a 2 year old horse would be about 13 human years old.) Is it the same in the UK? In the last ten to twenty years there has been an increased push to rehome and retrain as many horses as we as a sport can. I personally try to rehome every horse that leaves the yard to a good home, provided the owner is willing and doesn't want to keep it themselves. I wouldn't say that selling horses, particularly race horses, for slaughter is common practise here. I haven't encountered any instances personally. Horses are frequently run aged two or three in this country as well however I think it's wise to mention that while they do work hard it is not in our or the horses interest to overwork or break them down. In our yard if a young horse is showing signs of struggling we will ease off and give them time.
But, don't a majority of your horses run on turf (compared to US dirt tracks). We don't use dirt at all here. There are a few all weather tracks for flat meetings but most racing is done on turf.
, aren't pain medications more restricted in the UK circuits, so you really can't run a horse into the ground in the same way as US trainers can. Drugs are extremely restricted here, even a whiff of it and they will come down hard. Especially after the last couple of years.
Does the horse have any idea that he is going round and round? Oh yeah. They are clever bastards. You can often tell when it's time to retire a horse from racing because instead of carrying on the race when they get round the course and near to the stables they will try and pull up.
Where do they get jockeys from? Is it genetic? Do they have funny voices from getting their nads squished on the saddle every race? From Ireland generally! A lot do come from a long line of jockeys or racing families in general.
Well other than being Irish I guess the funny voice could come from the pounding their bollocks take...
What is a good resource to learn about racing in the UK if I wanted to attend as a tourist? This website is run by the governing body of racing and has lots of good information on racecourse and fixtures.
Once you have decided on where you want to go I suggest visiting some of the individual racecourses website as they are much more detailed. If you are visiting London during summer I do suggest going to Windsor they do fantastic evening racing, generally on a Monday night where you can get to the racecourse on a boat that comes up the River Thames. Cool huh?
Is racing there seasonal or year-round? Horse racing as a sport happens all year round however some elements of it are indeed seasonal.
For example Flat racing is predominately held over Summer, this is because these horses are generally smaller and appreciate 'faster' (read harder) ground.
During Winter we get most of the National Hunt meetings. National Hunt is the full name for jumps racing. Generally speaking horses are larger and as such need softer ground to prevent injuries and slow them down.
I've never been to a horse racing track and what are some of the reasons for me to want to go? Have you ever felt like the horses weren't being treated fairly on or off the track? Final question is have you ever witnessed anybody on the track gamble to much that you started to feel it was running their life? Sorry about all the questions! Horse racing is a fun and enjoyable pastime. It's great to get a lot of people together and go and have a few drinks and a couple of bets on horses, it really is exciting when there is money on it. It's a good fun day out and provided you budget like any other day out, it doesn't have to be really expensive either.
Welfare is a tough question to answer briefly but I will give it a shot and if their is more interest I can write up a larger response. I personally feel that the majority of trainers provide a very high level of welfare for their horses. We really do love the animals regardless of what people may say. Racehorses get treated especially well, better than most horses kept just for riding I would argue. We are incredibly strictly regulated on animal welfare issues and the punishments are severe for the very few people who do break the rules.
I personally am not a huge gambler, I have a little flutter every now and then but for the most part It don't gamble. I have not ever seen someone ruin their lives through betting but that's not to say it doesn't happen I'm sure.
If the horses are treated well, why are they whipped to make them run faster at the end of the race? It's to make them go faster, it causes the horse no damage and Jockeys are carefully regulated. Limits are set in place for how much a whip can be used and bans and fines for excessive use are common.
Horses are big animals and the whip is primarily a correctional tool, they are trained to respond to it and it's used to keep them under control. Most schools of equestrianism use the whip in some form.
Last year, there were some interesting articles in the press about how horse racing was a dying sport (for example, here and here). How does it look from your perspective? Horse racing is the second most attended sport in the UK, we also hold something like 6 of the highest 10 sporting fixtures in the UK each year. However the average age of the racegoer is getting higher and higher, at a higher level than I there must be a push to encourage a younger audience to attend racing. Racing in this country is coming under attack from decreasing in funding by the betting industry. Every year we receive less money to go towards prize money and such due to an archiac system called the Levy which is supposed to provided the sport with a proportion of bookmakers profits. Improvements look to be being made in this are as the Government, I believe, is pushing to regulate the betting industry differently allowing online betting in particular to be properly taxed and the money collected. It's tough for trainers right now. There aren't as many trainers around than there were in 2007. The recession hit us hard as unsurprisingly the first cost most people shed was a racehorse in training. Ultimately though the situation does start to look like its improving, people are buying horses again and yards are starting to be a bit larger each year. The next one to look out for is China. Racing is becoming very popular there and gambling isn't even legal on mainland china. If China liberalises at the rate it has been it may only be a few years before they regulate the betting industry and everything really kicks off.
Thank you so much for the reply! If you have a minute, I have another question or two... How often do horses race internationally, such as coming from the UK to race in the US or vice-versa? What about going to the Middle East? Also, are there many horses from South America in the UK racing circuit? Our top flight horses travel all over the world to contest titles. This is called "raiding" and foreigners come to England to do it too! The Breeders Cup is something every trainer wants to win. As for the Middle East the main draw is the money. It is insane. Next Saturday is the Dubai World Cup held at Meydan. They built this huge racing complex way out in the desert and hold loads of expensive racing at night to avoid the heat. Pretty surreal compared to here. I don't know of any South American horses running under rules and I'm not certain why they wouldn't. I suppose they don't have any good enough to warrant the expense of travelling over.
I was curious about the South American horses because a few years back there seemed to be a bunch of them on the American circuit from Argentina (that American owners had purchased). I think it had to do with the dollar being so strong and the economy in Argentina being so bad. Ahh. I think they race on dirt over in Argentina so they would be better suited for American racing.
Where are the races held? What are the most popular meets? Is "meets" the right word? Racing is held all over the UK Some of the most popular meetings are Royal Ascot, the Derby Meeting at Epsom and Glorious Goodwood on the Flat. Thousands of people attend these three or four day long meetings every year and it's really quite a sight!
Over the Jumps the most popular are the Cheltenham Festival and the Grand National meeting at Aintree in Liverpool. The Cheltenham Festival is a personal favourite of mine as the atmosphere is truly electric, around 60,000 people attend each day.
Edit: Whoops! Yes meets is a fine phrase. More commonly people will say meetings, fixtures or races.
Thanks so much for your time, and I wish you the best of luck in the future! Your father sounds like a proper horseman. Id like to think I can spot a good one but not nearly as well as my father or my grandfather. It's a skill we all pick up the more we watch.
What's your favorite track? Have you had a few of your horses run in the US? I know whenever I see a steeplechase race in the program, the overwhelming majority of horses in the race are from Great Britain. My favourite to go to as a racegoer would have to be Newbury. The facilities are amazing and the racing is generally of a really high quality both on the flat and over the jumps. Professionally in recent years we have had some success at Plumpton down on the South Coast near Brighton, it's a nice little country course.
Not for my yard no sadly but I would love to come over for some of your racing. Some of my extended family take a few horses out there every now and then. It's every trainers dream to raid a Breeders Cup!
When it's clear your horse stands no chance, how much do you lay the horse on betfair? Call me a man of integrity but I don't at all. Maybe that's because it's been so long since I had a favourite...
Who makes the best sausages in Newmarket? Dunno mate. I'm all about the lasagne.
Roughly what percentage of races are still fixed? I have no idea to be honest. It's probably very very low, it's a hard thing to pull off and the punishments are very strict. Life long bans and potential criminal prosecution.
A few do attempt it of course, a big ring got taken down a few years ago. It's a shame that this is an issue that press fixate upon really as on a day to day basis you don't even think about it within the Industry.
Would it be advantageous for a midget to be a jockey? Not at all! Jockey's are professional sportsmen in a job where if you can't make the weight you can't ride. Some jockey's have to be very light while others can afford to be heavier, it depends on their role as every horse generally requires a different weight based on their handicap rating (A whole other kettle of fish).
Jockeys not only have to be light but have to be incredibly fit and strong. It's really hard work to ride a horse in that style for possibly four miles. Most jockey's I know aren't just good jockeys they are athletes who are proficient at most sports. They really seem to love golf.
If I could go back in time I would love to have gone the career path of a jockey... their commitment to the sport is fantastic and they really put their bodies on the line. Complete Commitment
I just hope some people understand the distances these jockeys travel just to do the job, they will do 2 meetings a day where possible, day in - day out. The physical exertion must be intense only to wake up and do it all over again. It's important to note that during the day most of them work for a trainer as well. They will ride out maybe three or four lots in the morning before going racing sometimes.
Do you gamble? Do you often get tips and are they reliable? Not often, I do for fun every now and then and always over the Cheltenham Festival.
Sadly not often but sometimes a good tip comes along. Often I'm too sceptical to believe it.
Thanks for doing this! I'm a big fan of horse racing and was wondering, what should I be looking at when placing my bet on a certain horse?. Days off? Avg class ? High speed? Etc. in other words , what is the most important stat? Form is the big one. Form over a comparable distance with comparable ground conditions. You can start to make educated guesses each way after that if you start to take in other variables like equipment etc.
The going has a massive impact from my experience, if the horse doesn't run well on a certain ground its a no-no. I couldn't agree more, going is vitally important however generally speaking when we run a horse on different ground than normal we are hoping it will overcome it.
When they state in the paper that they are wearing headgear or blinkers etc. do you think this can make a significant difference? Headgear is a really useful tool, sometimes they go really well. Other times it has no effect. Sometimes the effects deteriorate over time. Generally if one of mine is wearing head gear for the first time it means we have worked it at home and it's worked really well.
What was the most expensive batch of horse seed you know of being sold? By horse seed do you mean semen? If so in the Thoroughbred Bloodstock Industry Artificial Insemination is banned. Only natural coverings are permitted. Race horses are still crazy expensive though. People can spend millions of pounds on one horse.
What's your most gruesome story? i've heard some pretty horrific stuff from botched castrations/surgeries on horses. As for most gruesome I don't have any really awful ones about horses. We have had some nasty falls and one went through a barbed wire fence once but nothing truly disgusting. Likewise never seen any botched geldings or surgeries. But they do happen, I like to think the vet we use is pretty good so I hope it won't happen anytime soon!
Only live coverage is allowed? Fascinating. Why is that the case? So I take it that there is a limited amount of bloodlines unless you actually ship the horse out of country/continent? A few reasons.
One, limits the number of stock from a single stallion. AI decreases the cost of covering so semen would be more readily available. You would end up with thousands of foal in the same year by the same sire. Thats a quick way to fuck up your bloodlines.
Two, why would they change to it? Now all the selling power is held by those who it would affect most. The studs which own the stallions make millions of pounds a year in coverings, if they saturate (literally in this case) the market they will make loses.
Three, racing is an international sport, if one country did it and no one followed suit very quickly they would find themselves isolated with a horse population that couldn't compete abroad.
What is your favorite color? Blue. I like Blue...
That is the correct answer, OP. Now you must answer one more question to cross the bridge. What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? African or European?
European. Ffffuuu...
Ohh boy. I've been wanting to ask so many questions about your industry but wasnt quite sure what sub to go to. Thanks for doing this ama.A bunch of questions here. Hope you can clear things up for me. How do trainers even make money. Sometimes the odds of a horse winning are upwards of 20/1 when the prize money is usually around 10k-20k(?). factor in the logistical, training and acquiring costs and seems like a losers game to train a horse (?) Hey man! Hope I can help. Trainers charge the owners of horses a training fee. This is generally a daily charge plus extras . Sometimes it's very hard to make money as a trainer, a lot of people don't turn a profit training racehorses many just do it for the fun and the lifestyle.
How do you even judge how fast a horse will be when you go to three auction? Generally breeding, if the mare and stallion are good the horse has a better chance of being good. Ideally you compare the horse to a full sibling however this is rare and you generally end up comparing them to half brothesister on the maternal side.
The Grand National seems like an absolutely absurd event to me. Would you say it enjoys broad support among the racing community? I think it's a truly impressive spectacle that is the hardest test we throw at our toughest horse and jockey teams. I don't feel it's representative of the day to day life in the racing world however.
I worked at the grand national once. a G4S man tried to crush me in a bin. Consequentially I don't trust anyone associated with your profession. Sorry about that. Aww come on. G4S as in the men being done for manslaughter? Trust me when I say we hate those hired security at the big meetings more than you do. We normally know the guy on the gate because it's been the same one for maybe twenty years. However at the big meetings they roll out extra staff and they get lost in the crowd somewhere...
How much pressure is there for the horses to get results? If you had a severe patch of not winning many races does this affect the finances of the yard? Everyone wants their horse to perform at the height of it's ability so it's tough. Hopefully you have owners who understand it's just a patch and that fortune will turn round in the long run.
Yards as a general rule of thumb don't really on prize money to fund themselves, it does however draw in new owners!
So whats the bread and butter of a decent yard then? The brad and butter is training fees through a daily cost per horse plus extras.
One or two wealthy owners who love the sport and who have three or more horses each are what every yard really needs. These owners are hopefully loyal and will use you year after year, topping up their stock. They are the ones who keep racing afloat.
In respect to training under saddle, what do the horses need to learn beyond the very basics of carrying a rider? In other words, what are some of the subtleties of a good racehorse's training? A lot of the time it's basic riding skills, shortening and quickening stride etc but the real aim is to get them to respond as well to the rider as possible. They have to respond to being asked to quicken or shorten. Ultimately each horse is different and generally the rider changes a lot to suit the horse.
Do you worry about having them change leads during certain sections of a race? With stride length, is it all based off rein cues since the jockey doesn't really have any leg (or seat!) aids to work with? Thank you! To be perfectly honest by this point I'm just glad I have got them there, it's the jockey's job to make sure he gives them a proper race. If you watch a race you will see the jockey uses his entire body when quickening, they still use their heels as much as they can!
So it's basically all about speed control? Could you explain how jockeys signal for the changes? Watch this
You can see as they come round the corner the jockey is holding his hands in a way that the bit just makes contact with the horse and holds it steady. When they ask them to go faster they break that contact and the horse no longer feel the bit and are physically encouraged by the jockeys movement.
Where do you get the leprechauns used in horse racing? and how do you coax them to ride horses for you? I generally find them hanging around rainbows actually. I offer them gold.
Did you ever get to work with / alongside Kauto Star? If so, just how awesome was he in person. His last King George win brought me to tears, such an amazing, beautiful horse! Sadly no but I was always a great fan of his. Great looking animal he was!
When I was in Newmarket visiting some of the tracks I was told that horse racing began to decline in the community when corruption with gambling and the treatment of jockeys were made aware. Due to these dilemmas, the community no longer firmly supported horse racing because it did not contribute to the steady state of the community that they initially sought. Is there truth to this? Can you further explain? Thanks! I think that maybe historically that could be the case but less so in this day and age. Nowadays corruption is rare and much easier to detect, staff welfare is very important and they have their own unions which continually lobby for better conditions.
Would you rather train 100 duck-sized horses or 1 horse-sized duck? Come on.
One horse sized duck. Think of the eggs...
Have u ever met John McCririck and is he a douchebag ? Not a face to face introduction but have attended several events he's been at.
Can confirm. Is a douchebag.
I just purchased an OTTB here in the US...he has set osselets and his last race was this past January. Is it common to race a horse with known ankle problems? Nope. If it moves badly it doesn't race. Fluid, comfortable movement is one of the most important things in horse welfare.
Do your racehorses piss frequently, or is it just that when they do have to piss, they really have to piss and can't hold it in? Aww man. They piss a lot. And it's not pleasant either. Did you know, horses are unable to walk and piss. They just can't do it.
Horses like to piss at irritating times, unless of course we are being dope tested and they will absolutely refuse for hours.
Did you know, horses are unable to walk and piss. I don't think that I could either; it's an eitheor thing for me. You should try it. it looks hilarious.
Odd question, but have you ever had any luck teaching them to do their business in one particular place, like a dog, or do they go pretty much anywhere? I worked at a stable once, and there was an old stallion who would only "go" in one corner of his stall... Horses are weird. There is no method. Some are just mental.
What kind of preparation does the horse go through the day and night before a race? I've always wondered do horses ever have a terrible nights sleep or a bad travel to the course and that causes them to under-perform. Whats the most common reason a horse under-performs in your opinion? There is a few things that may happen. If the race is far away the horse may travel to the racecourse the night before. This is to allow it to recover to be in best condition as long travel is taxing to the horse.
If it's at home I will give it less bulky feed at it's morning feed. Just high energy protein generally. We will then jump in the box and drive to the racecourse to arrive a few hours before the race. I think travel is a consideration when considering under performing horses.
Most common reasons for underperformance... I'd have to say the ground. If the ground isn't to the liking of the horse it can have a real effect on the way they run the race.
What happens to mediocre horses after they're through racing? We try to rehome them just as well as the best ones. A lot of owners really care about their horses and take them back for their retirement. If nothing can be done sometimes they have to be put down which is always sad.
What's the best breed? Both for racing and in general. Well thoroughbreds. It's the only professional racing in this country and I think they look just great.
Would it be legal for you to bet? It is legal for me to bet on one of my horses to win. I can't bet to lay a horse. I believe Jockeys can't bet at all.
Edit: Word change...
Who's going to win the Derby this year? God I wish I knew. Aidan O'Brien's probably got a good shot with his thing. That man gets some class horses.
What kind of jobs are there in the racing industry? I have grown up with horses and would love to work with them professionally but unsure what is available really. Do you need racing experience to become involved in the racing world? Exciting to see a fellow Brit here :) Try this
My best advice is find your local trainer and offer to work on weekends. They may pay you but they might not. If you're lucky they will give you a chance.
Hi,I was a part time worker of japanese horse racing track.it was the easiest and well paid job I have ever gotten. do you have any ideas to improve japanese horse racing industry?or do you know any good japanese jockeys or horses? Hey there, I don't really know much about Japanese racing apart from it's got one of the best prize money returns! I think we can learn a lot more from you than you could from us.
When jockeys change weights, do they have to make up additional weights? If so, how are the additional weights attached on? They do indeed need to carry more weight. This done in the form of weight plates, these are made of lead and added to a special weight cloth worn under the saddle.
Do you get to go to the races with the horses you train? I try to go with as many as I can, either to lead up and groom or to saddle up. Sadly I don't have as much time as I used to but I still make all the effort to go. Especially for my favourites.
If you make it to Brighton, there's a load of redditors who meet up several times a week. Fantastic! I quite frequently go to Fontwell and Plumpton which are both nearby (kinda) haven't raced at Brighton though. I will have to alert the redditors next time I'm there...
BTW, Where's Shergar?? I will forward that question to Findus for you. They are good at hiding horses.
Is operant conditioning used in training, i.e. race with other horses and reward the horse when it wins? I wouldn't say it's used as a training method. If one of mine wins I always give it a little something extra and a few days off.
My potential future father-in-law was a horse trainer in his youth. What are some things I can learn about it for conversation topics? Perhaps a book or some similar resource so I can ground myself in some of the basics? Just start to follow racing a little, try and understand how it works. As for books I don't really know anything personally but some people are great fans of the Dick Francis novels which are based round horse racing however I can't say I have read them.
What does it take to train a good racehorse? Im yet to have a good racehorse, maybe I could let you know in around 30-40 years? I might find one by then...
But seriously some guys have a really good strategy, Nicky Henderson is always right up there on the Jumps side and Aidan O'brien recently has been incredibly good. I think the trick is to lots of wealthy owners!
Does the industry believe that sheikh Mohammed's investigation, that coincidentally cleared him of any knowledge of what was going on, was genuine? Who knows? I doubt Shiekh Mohammed would have actually turned to his trainers and said "Use drugs bro." I would imagine that the environment of pressure he puts on those who work for him is so great they feel like they have no choice.
that Dubai airlines flight full of drugs... that was just a coincidence then? Not at all, the drugs scandal has stuck very firmly to Shiekh Mohammed. He might well be guilty but I wouldn't know either way!
Were you just at the gold cup in Cheltenham? My wife is from (and her parents still live) about five minutes drive from the track :) Sadly not the Gold Cup! I went on Thursday for the World Hurdle and it was a really great day. Cheltenham is one of the best courses in the country and I really love that part of the Cotswolds.
What happens to foals who don't make the cut as racing horses? We try to rehome and retrain as many unraceable thoroughbreds as possible. However if nothing else can be done some are sadly put down.
I've won the last two grand nationals with 100 to 1 winners from random tips off strangers on the internet. So random stranger do you have a tip for me? I am not your random stranger my friend. Go with your system, pick a long shot for the national. Anything could win it.
As someone from Louisville, Kentucky, have you ever been to Churchill Downs? If so, what is your opinion on the track? It's one of the most known tracks worldwide because of the Kentucky Derby. Sadly no! But I am visiting Kentucky this time next year so let me know what I should do when I visit.
Do ya'll eat the horses when they are too old to race? What do you think I ate for dinner? Pizza?
(It was Pizza...)
Hi! You answered in another question that the horses know they're going round in circles, they know where the stables are and so on, but how well do they understand the concept of racing - i.e. how well do they know that the point is to be ahead of all the other horses at a certain place? Yeah some are better suited to different kinds of races. Some like to be in front all the way and hate to have other horses compete with them. Other like to slowly build from the rear of the field and then burst forward using their turn of foot. Others just plod along at the same pace and hit the line just right.
Last updated: 2014-03-26 20:02 UTC
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The Derby (1966) The Derby (1955) Bloodstock Postcast: Epsom Derby  Epsom Oaks Pedigree Tipping Epsom Derby and the Oaks with two for Tramore!  Weekend Betting Tips Epsom Derby 2014 playlist - YouTube

As it was rectified so quickly, we didn't have the chance to make any significant changes to the betting." The draw took place at Epsom for only the second year, with Derby-winning jockeys Michael Hills and Willie Carson selecting the horse and corresponding stall numbers in a ceremony streamed live on Epsom's Facebook page. racing betting websites which include the Derby as part of their offerings. Epsom Derby History. The Earls of Derby expressed great interest in horses and racing all the way back to the 17 th century. In 1779, the Epsom Oaks, a race for three-year-old fillies, was initiated, and it stands as the sister race to the Derby. The Epsom Derby is just another in a long list of top class contests to have fallen under Piggott’s spell, and it is “The Long Fellow” who is way out in front on his own in the list of top riders here. With no current jockey within sight of Piggott at present, this is a record that will likely stand for some time yet. Epsom Derby Festival In-Play Betting You can bet in-play on almost all Epsom Derby Celebration races on typically the exchanges. There usually are a number associated with betting exchange sites designed for punters. Many top bookies also update their prices whilst the contest is being run. Results From The 2014 Kentucky Derby Vegas odds on the 2014 Kentucky Derby showed eventual winner California Chrome as the favorite. Winning in commanding fashion by 1 3/4 lengths ahead of long shot Commanding Curve (paying $31.80 and $15.40), the California colt paid $7.00, $5.60 and $4.20.

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The Derby (1966)

Epsom, Surrey. BGV. Epsom race course and massed crowds. STV. Massed crowds and bookies. SV. Man placing bet with bookie showing the runners. SCU. Bookie pointing to list of runners. SV. jockey ... View Racing Post betting offers on our website. 18+ Gamble Responsibly---YouTube: https: ... Epsom Derby Festival 2019 AntePostcast: Derby and Oaks Tipping - Duration: 53:26. Published on Apr 13, 2014. Title reads: "The Derby". This item is in colour. Epsom Downs, Surrey. Various shots crowds arriving at racecourse, including Indian ladies in saris. Various shots race ... Sea The Stars, sire of YOU'VE GOT IT (lot 1110) winning the 2009 Epsom Derby - Duration: ... 3:16. Irish Derby 2014 G1 - Australia - Duration: 2:56. Ali Dammas 45,762 views. 2:56. View Racing Post betting offers on our website. 18+ Gamble Responsibly--- ... 07.06.2014 Epsom (GB) 5.Race Investec Epsom Derby 2014 ... A Jockey's View of the Epsom Derby - Duration: ...