Texas Holdem Strategy: Basics of Betting, Calling

Is check/raising the flop a blunder in this spot?

10nl, eff stack is 142bb. Btn raises 3.5x, hero calls in the BB with 6d5d.
Flop: 4d2s7s
Pot: 7.5BB
Hero checks, btn cbets 5.3 BB,hero check/raises to 17.6 BB. Btn then 3-bets to 49.3 bb, forcing hero to fold.
Is the check/raise good here with OESD and BDFD? My reasoning is I didn't think the board favored the button opening range as much as the BB defend range, and I had a lot of equity. Or should I have just called to see a turn?
submitted by char_stars to poker [link] [comments]

Tales from 2+2: The Biggest Loser at Microstakes of All Time, A Story of Struggle

Link to Previous Tales From 2+2: Poker player steals $1m+ chips and tries to sell it on 2+2 poker forums
More Tales From 2+2: A Very Controversial $70k prop bet
Tales from 2+2: Homelessness, Grinding and the Biggest Shot of a Grinder’s Life: The Jared Huggins Story

The Blossoming of TV Poker

The Year is 2006. Online poker is thriving. Partypoker has the highest traffic of any poker site but Pokerstars are gaining new players quickly with aggressive marketing strategies. Lots of poker sites are investing heavily into marketing and one key place to channel their advertising budget is TV. New innovations, improved graphics and increasing funding meant that poker TV is at an all-time peak of popularity.
40% of the the 2006 WSOP Main Event’s attendance is from online sites and poker sites are offering large amounts of cash for players on TV to wear an advertising patch. According to Dan Goldman’s blog, Pokerstars spent over $730,000 on WSOP players’ gift bags. The WSOP is seeing more TV time and this year the $50k HORSE event is added to the TV schedule alongside the WSOP main event. This year’s $50k WSOP HORSE final table saw some huge names including Chip Reese, Phil Ivey, Patrik Antonius and Doyle Brunson.

The Path of a New Player

In Finland, Mikael Paisting is watching the 2006 WSOP on TV. He enjoys watching poker broadcasts and is fascinated by the game. It’s a very common story for players to catch an interest by watching poker TV and sign up with to one of the many poker sites available. He chooses to deposit on Partypoker. Mikael is a committed learner and player. He reads several poker books from well-known authors such as Dan Harrington and David Sklansky. He also watches many training videos. Like many players starting in online poker he begins at the microstakes cash tables.
Microstakes are a rite of passage for many online poker players. The limits range from 2nl to 10nl, so the standard buy in is $2-10. Some will play microstakes for weeks, months or even years improving their game and increasing their bankroll so they can move up to small stakes, 25nl and above. Some players see the microstakes as a job and play as many tables as they can to eke out a living wage. Some players have never played microstakes and skip it entirely for higher stakes. Mikael starts to play and doesn’t do well, this is normal for many beginners, even those who study. However, over the next few weeks Mikael continues to lose. Months go by and Mikael still hasn’t turned a profit. He discovers problems with tilt and often takes his frustration out in the chat box. An example of his rage:
Paisting:THAT IS NOT NORMAL OMG!! JUST UNBELIEVABLE
Mikael doesn’t play 10nl very often and spends the majority of him time playing 2nl and 5nl. He continues to multitable cash games on Partypoker but he just can’t win. He starts to lose big, thousands of dollars, mostly at 2nl which is known as the softest cash game on the internet.

Getting Noticed

Mikael continues to play long sessions over the next five years, he claims to play 5-7 days a week for 4-8 hours a day. By 2011 he had played 2 and a half million hands while playing 6 to 9 cash tables at one time. Mikael is still mostly playing 2nl and is down a colossal amount: $7000. Mikael has been suffering from major tilt problems and has a very wild and noticeable style of playing microstakes. He starts to get noticed on 2+2, a very popular poker forum. A player posts a link to his PTR graph, a site which tracks online cash games. They are shocked at his losses over so many hands:
yegor: wow such a massive fail
he played 2.5m hands at 2nl and 5nl and he's losing
Donkey111: I remember him from my 2NL days.
often goes on some massive tilt sessions and spews like 20 BI in 500 hands by shoving any 2 cards preflop.
He even gets hate from his PTR account where he is ridiculed on his profile comments, he also replies:
VELAir26: Spend your time with family, friends or other hobbies instead
Paisting: im fine with this you stupid idiot
Mikael continues to play his reckless and tilting style over the years. By 2014, he has been playing for 8 years and is down five figures at microstakes; he starts to look for excuses for how much he has lost. He posts a thread on 2+2 detailing how he feels that he wins at the start of the month and then inevitably starts to lose. He asks how he can take legal action against Partypoker. His fellow posters tease him:
5thStreethog: Did the thought ever cross your mind that it might be possible that the reason you cant beat NL2 in over a million hands might be because you arent very good at poker?

An Attempt at Redemption

2019 comes and Mikael Paisting has been playing microstakes for 13 years, and steadily losing a lot of money. He got a new computer in late 2018 and has been grinding away on it. Mikael is getting mentioned more on 2+2 and he is well known on the tables of Partypoker as he drops stack after stack. Many players on Partypoker furiously try to get on his tables to call his tilt shoves; when Mikael is present other player’s stacks can get as high as $100 at 2nl as he shoves buy in after buy in to button steals. Some were said to be using seating scripts to instantly be placed on a table with Paisting. At this point he is feeling very low. But despite years of losing money and insane tilting he is determined to improve. Mikael is aware of his losses and has a fierce desire to make back the money he has lost since he’s started tracking on his new PC.
He decides get help and he looks to 2+2, the very same forum that had mocked him over the last decade. He logs in as Paisting, his last name. He starts a new thread, types out a post and chooses a title: 'Biggest loser in online poker history wants to grind $16k'. He posts this thread in the sub-forum Poker Goals & Challenges, a place where players post their goals and try to update their thread with their progress. He posts graphs of his losses from his database on his PC. He starts the thread by posting some shocking graphs of $8700 lost at 2nl, $6000 lost at 5nl and $800 lost at 10nl. At 2nl he had an incredible rate of -170BB each 100 hands. The final graph of his microstakes losses posted show $15,000 lost over 365,000 hands. An average loss of $75 a day.
The 2+2 poker community are stunned by the graphs:
HorseofHell: I'm actually shocked it's possible to lose this much at 2nl
Mahsjdj: This can't be real can it?
Mikael posts about the hard work he’s put into poker and mentions that has watched videos, read many instructional books and is honest with his astounding losses:
Paisting: I've lost literally all my money including all my life savings to online poker. I want to try one last time to win those money back and little bit of extra. That's why $16k. What I need is support and guiding.
The community react to his plan to grind all the money back at microstakes:
Fodersneso: This is really disturbing.
Why on earth would you try to grind this all back? Losing at this rate is traumatizing. You're going to grind out 3000 BIs @nl5 now or what's the plan? Really curious how you think you can turn this pile of insanity around...
The community show disbelief and doubt that his story is real but several posters claim that what he says is true. He has been active in Finnish forums for more than 10 years and players starts to share hand histories and stories about his playstyle. He posts about his regret of picking the game up:
Paisting: Never had a winning week in 13 years.
If it were possible to go back ten years I would say to myself "Do not never play single one hand!"
He then goes on to tell 2+2 posters a disturbing source of his funds for his staggering 2nl losses:
Paisting: I've taken huge amount of fast loans.
He sheds a little light into his personal life:
Paisting: My age and relationships has nothing to do with this. But not working, no kids or wife and middle aged. What I have is time to play.
I get a little unemployment benefit that goes straight to the rent. My eating costs are very little because I'm only eating one meal per day. There are times when I must take more fast loans if need of clothes, unexpected bills, sickness etc. That's why getting back those $16k is so important to me.
No disability, never played anything else than poker or lottery when pots are bigger, maybe 5 times in year. Playing poker does not give me any excitement or I'm not cheering won pots.
Posters try to give him strategy advice, they try to persuade him time and time again that shoving 100+ blinds to a minsteal isn’t a good idea. Some others question his sanity and tell him to quit:
FazendeiroBH: Not trolling, I´m actually serious here. You lost an absurd amount of money playing the easiest stake in the world (nl2). You keep losing doing the same faulty strategy. No book ever said you should jam 100 bb preflop rfi. It´s quite obvious there is something wrong with you and your brain, and the more you delay seeking professional care for your mental problems, the worst it´s gonna be for you.
Paitsing updates his thread with highlight hands from his cash sessions. He seems to cherry pick hands to post and will only post hands where he loses all ins as a 70-95% favourite. He delusion leads him to blame the site, his luck and the other micro grinders. He often writes about specific players and gives his opinion on how badly they play. He often quotes their HUD stats and wide calling ranges while ignoring that they are probably adjusting heavily to his own playstyle. Some time passes and he discloses that he has lost almost $500 at 2nl since starting the thread three weeks ago.
He updates his followers with the first monthly graph of the thread from his 2nl play in April 2019. He plays for 90 hours in April and his average daily loss is $50, 25 buy ins each day. 2+2 players start to analyse the graph. They notice that there are several breakeven spots where he may be playing reasonable poker but also huge 150 buy in downswings, some drops in the graph are so steep that he is losing about a buy in every 5 hands for periods of hundreds of hands. He says:
Paitsing: Only trying to get my money back from guys who are playing nl2 forever and never moving up. When I started poker long time ago I tought it's exciting to read watch videos if it gives me more money. After 2 years figured out it's just sitting on computer like in work and if I'm someday +-0 never ever playing this stupid game. This is like war.
The thread goes on like this for almost a year. The thread repeats itself over and over. He will post a few selective bad beats, ignore good advice and berate his microstakes tablemates. A fellow microstakes grinder makes his first appearance in the thread: 6betpot. 6Betpot would play at Paisting's tables and often win many buy ins, 6Betpot would go on to post highly contrasting hand histories to the bad beats that Paisting posts, he would also reveal Paisting’s preflop 3 bet is around 30%. Some players would criticize 6Betpot for predatory behavior but 6Betpot would maintain that he would try to persuade Paisting to stop playing in a spewy manner. Someone asks to see the hands and 6Betpot posts some, here is one:
888 Poker - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
BTN: 250.5 BB
SB (Paisting): 425.5 BB
BB: 101.5 BB
UTG: 100 BB
MP: 106.5 BB
CO: 84.5 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) BTN has AdQs
fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2 BB, Paisting raises to 425.5 BB and is all-in, fold, BTN calls 248.5 BB and is all-in
Flop: (502 BB, 2 players) Kh4s4c
Turn: (502 BB, 2 players) 3h
River: (502 BB, 2 players) Jc
BTN shows AdQs (One Pair, Fours)
Paisting shows 5s Js (Two Pair, Jacks and Fours)
Paisting wins 471 BB<
Later in the thread Paisting would reveal his line of thinking during hands like these; a poster asked why he though 3 betting hands like J5 was a good idea. Paisting replies:
Paisting: If you don't want them to run over you, you must do something. Blind play is very important and you can't let them run over you. When 80+ habit stealer gets shoves straight to his face he must learn at some point that I'm not giving blinds.
Many tried to reason with him and show him clearly why this was wrong, he not only refuted their strategy but would argue against them, often citing his opponent’s HUD stats.
Later on in the thread Mikael posts horrifying news. He explains that he didn’t transfer hands from his old computer to his new computer. The graphs he posted at the start of the thread only showed the tip of the iceberg. He reveals that $16k loss from the graphs was from just 7 months of play!:
Paisting: That 16k is in 209 days and in about 1 year as you can see from the first post. Big part of my losings has left to hard drive of my old crashed computer. That's past and I don't wanna think about it anymore. Main goal is this database I have here in my computer. But yes what I have been repeating many times, moving to 888 poker has sky rocketed my losses although I can play only 6 tables compared to party's 9 tables.
Posters speculate that his lifetime microstakes losses probably amount to six figures:
SpinMeRightRound: I mean if he's lost $20k in the last year, and he's been doing this for more than 10 years, he may have lost $200k or more.
In late 2019, Paisting claims that there was a ring of players were colluding against him. He goes on to say that the new site he plays on, 888, were asking for hand histories from certain players. He showed emails of his communications and posted that 8 players had had their account frozen. He also shows screenshots that his account is temporarily frozen during the investigation. Posters speculated:
CrunchyBlack: Pretty sure they think you're chip dumping lmao
.isolated: They think you're chip dumping to him. Funniest. Thing. Ever. The irony here is nearly palpable.

2020: The Struggle Continues

At the end of the year Paisting posts his 2019 graphs. He says that he hasn’t had a winning week yet and he’s still committed to making back 2019’s losses. His graphs show down 12k from 320k hands of 2nl in 2019.
In January 2020 he continues to post regularly and makes comments about him hunting down players worse than him:
Paisting: When you hunt really bad player (yes enzet there are plenty of worst player than me on 888 look those hand histories really carefully) hours and hours and wait good hand just to site let them to suck out it is affecting your game really badly.
He posts about his continuing struggle to win back the $16k:
Paisting: I have years dedicated for this project and anything back from that amount is winning to me. At this point it’s impossible to make any profit because of horrible suckouts.
He also posts about the high interest loans he’s taken out:
Paisting: I have huge amounts of loans that are basically all taken for poker. I don't eat much and all my other costs are very low.
And because of those loans I must get back so much money that is possible and these suck outs must stop.
February 2020 arrives and he posts his January chart, the worst posted yet. He takes a gigantic loss of $1,550 at an eye-watering rate of 210bb/100 hands. Often when he posts monthly graphs he would highlight that he ran a few buy ins below EV when he would be down hundreds of buy ins for the month.
The months pass and the cycle continues. Paisting posts the usual bad beats, posters berate him and try to give him advice and Paisting resists their efforts. Here is one of many similar hands posted in February:
888Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
UTG: $1.46 (73 bb) Paisting (MP): $7.45 (373 bb) CO: $15.44 (772 bb) BU: $2.00 (100 bb) SB: $3.47 (174 bb) BB: $2.00 (100 bb)
Pre-Flop: ($0.03) 1 fold, Paisting(MP) raises to $7.45 (all-in), CO calls $7.45, 3 players fold
Flop: ($14.93) 6c7c4d (2 players, 1 all-in)
Turn: ($14.93) Ts (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($14.93) 8h (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $14.93 (Rake: $0.93)
Showdown: Paisting (MP) shows 7dTc (two pair, Tens and Sevens) (CO) shows JsJc (a pair of Jacks) Paisting (MP) wins $14
March comes and the regular monthly graph is posted. The uploaded graph shows is he down $1900 or 950 buy ins for last month. Mikael refutes that he is a gambling addict:
Paisting: 888 has given many 10 dollar bonuses to me play slots. I have never played them and in fact my account has 20 dollars freeplay bonus to play their slots. I will not use those money now or in future. So that's gambling addict to you.
April and May roll by and the monthly graphs are posted. He played fewer hands than normal, 43,000. But is down $1,250, all at 2nl.
In June he posts the usual monthly graph with -$1900 and it’s the lowest win rate he’s posted before, a colossal -335b/100hands, the graph has some alarmingly steep downswings with one section where he loses $500 in 1000 hands. That’s a loss of one buy in every 4 hands. Getting these monthly updates shows how quickly he loses money at 2nl and collaborates with earlier estimations that he is likely down more than $100k at microstakes over the past 14 years. Approximations indicate that Mikael has paid over $20k in rake to poker sites over the years.

The End, for Now

Mikael is still playing microstakes to this day. His poker story isn’t over yet but so far it is a sad one. My previous two Tales from 2+2 stories had mostly happy endings but not this one. This story is like a car falling down a cliff and it hasn’t hit the bottom yet.
Let this story be a lesson that poker isn’t for everyone. Players with addiction or mental issues should reconsider if the game is best for their lives. Serious poker players should consider bankroll management and how tilt affects their winrate if they do choose to play.
Seek help if you think you or others need it.
Original thread (Still active)
submitted by GiantHorse to poker [link] [comments]

[Online Poker] The Biggest Loser of All Time at the Lowest Online Stakes, a Story of Struggle

Link to my online poker HobbyDrama posts: Poker player steals $1m+ chips and tries to sell it on 2+2 poker forums
A Very Controversial $70k prop bet
Poker Forum Help Homeless Player Attempt The Shot of a Lifetime

The Blossoming of TV Poker

The Year is 2006. Online poker is thriving. Partypoker has the highest traffic of any poker site but Pokerstars are gaining new players quickly with aggressive marketing strategies. Lots of poker sites are investing heavily into marketing and one key place to channel their advertising budget is TV. New innovations, improved graphics and increasing funding meant that poker TV is at an all-time peak of popularity.
The World Series of Poker (WSOP) is the biggest event in the poker calendar, it features many poker tournaments culminating in the prestigious $10k Main Event tournament. The Main Event is a popular televised tournament. 40% of the the 2006 WSOP Main Event’s attendance is from online sites and poker sites are offering large amounts of cash for players on TV to wear an advertising patch. According to Dan Goldman’s blog, Pokerstars spent over $730,000 on WSOP players’ gift bags. The WSOP is seeing more TV time and this year an extra event is added to the TV schedule alongside the WSOP main event.

The Path of a New Player

In Finland, Mikael Paisting is watching the 2006 WSOP on TV. He enjoys watching poker broadcasts and is fascinated by the game. It’s a very common story for players to catch an interest by watching poker TV and sign up with to one of the many poker sites available. He chooses to deposit on Partypoker. Mikael is a committed learner and player. He reads several poker books from well-known authors. He also watches many training videos. Like many players starting in online poker he begins at the microstakes cash tables.
The standard buy in for microstakes online is $2-10, if a player plays microstakes for an hour they would probably win or lose a few dollars. 2nl means the big blind is 2 cents and standard buy in is $2, the standard buy in at 5nl is $5 and 10nl is $10.
Microstakes are a rite of passage for many online poker players. Some will play microstakes for weeks, months or even years improving their game and increasing their bankroll so they can move up to small stakes, 25nl and above. Some players see the microstakes as a job and play as many tables as they can to eke out a living wage. Some players have never played microstakes and skip it entirely for higher stakes. Mikael starts to play and doesn’t do well, this is normal for many beginners, even those who study. However, over the next few weeks Mikael continues to lose. Months go by and Mikael still hasn’t turned a profit. He discovers problems with tilt (when players get angry and it negatively affects their play) and often takes his frustration out in the chat box. An example of his rage:
Paisting:THAT IS NOT NORMAL OMG!! JUST UNBELIEVABLE
Mikael doesn’t play 10nl very often and spends the majority of him time playing 2nl and 5nl, buying in for $2-5 at a time. He continues to multitable cash games on Partypoker but he just can’t win. He starts to lose big, thousands of dollars, mostly at 2nl which is known as the softest cash game on the internet.

Getting Noticed

Mikael continues to play long sessions over the next five years, he claims to play 5-7 days a week for 4-8 hours a day. By 2011 he had played 2 and a half million hands while playing 6 to 9 cash tables at one time. Mikael is still mostly playing 2nl and is down a colossal amount: $7000. Remember that he is mostly playing 2nl, with a buy in of $2, even losing $1000 at 2nl is unheard of. Mikael has been suffering from major tilt problems and has a very wild and noticeable style of playing microstakes. He starts to get noticed on 2+2, a very popular poker forum. A player posts a link to his PTR graph, a site which tracks online cash games. They are shocked at his losses over so many hands:
yegor: wow such a massive fail
he played 2.5m hands at 2nl and 5nl and he's losing
Donkey111: I remember him from my 2NL days.
often goes on some massive tilt sessions and spews like 20 BI [buy ins] in 500 hands by shoving any 2 cards preflop.
He even gets hate from his PTR account where he is ridiculed on his profile comments, he also replies:
VELAir26: Spend your time with family, friends or other hobbies instead
Paisting: im fine with this you stupid idiot
Mikael continues to play his reckless and tilting style over the years. By 2014, he has been playing for 8 years and is down five figures at microstakes; he starts to look for excuses for how much he has lost. He posts a thread on 2+2 detailing how he feels that he wins at the start of the month and then inevitably starts to lose. He asks how he can take legal action against Partypoker. His fellow posters tease him:
5thStreethog: Did the thought ever cross your mind that it might be possible that the reason you cant beat NL2 in over a million hands might be because you arent very good at poker?

An Attempt at Redemption

2019 comes and Mikael Paisting has been playing microstakes for 13 years, and steadily losing a lot of money. He got a new computer in late 2018 and has been grinding away on it. Mikael is getting mentioned more on 2+2 and he is well known on the tables of Partypoker as he drops stack after stack. Many players on Partypoker furiously try to get on his tables to call his tilt shoves; when Mikael is present other player’s stacks can get as high as $100 at 2nl as he shoves buy in after buy in in bad spots. Some were said to be using seating scripts to instantly be placed on a table with Paisting. At this point he is feeling very low. But despite years of losing money and insane tilting he is determined to improve. Mikael is aware of his losses and has a fierce desire to make back the money he has lost since he’s started tracking on his new PC.
He decides get help and he looks to 2+2, the very same forum that had mocked him over the last decade. He logs in as Paisting, his last name. He starts a new thread, types out a post and chooses a title: 'Biggest loser in online poker history wants to grind $16k'. He posts this thread in the sub-forum Poker Goals & Challenges, a place where players post their goals and try to update their thread with their progress. He posts graphs of his losses from his database on his PC. He starts the thread by posting some shocking graphs of $8700 lost at 2nl, $6000 lost at 5nl and $800 lost at 10nl. At 2nl he had an incredible rate of losing an average of $75 a day. The final graph of his microstakes losses posted show $15,000 lost over 365,000 hands.
The 2+2 poker community are stunned by the graphs:
HorseofHell: I'm actually shocked it's possible to lose this much at 2nl
Mahsjdj: This can't be real can it?
Mikael posts about the hard work he’s put into poker and mentions that has watched videos, read many instructional books and is honest with his astounding losses:
Paisting: I've lost literally all my money including all my life savings to online poker. I want to try one last time to win those money back and little bit of extra. That's why $16k. What I need is support and guiding.
The community react to his plan to grind all the money back at microstakes:
Fodersneso: This is really disturbing.
Why on earth would you try to grind this all back? Losing at this rate is traumatizing. You're going to grind out 3000 BIs [buy ins] @nl5 now or what's the plan? Really curious how you think you can turn this pile of insanity around...
The community show disbelief and doubt that his story is real but several posters claim that what he says is true. He has been active in Finnish forums for more than 10 years and players starts to share hand histories and stories about his playstyle. He posts about his regret of picking the game up:
Paisting: Never had a winning week in 13 years.
If it were possible to go back ten years I would say to myself "Do not never play single one hand!"
He then goes on to tell 2+2 posters a disturbing source of his funds for his staggering 2nl losses:
Paisting: I've taken huge amount of fast loans.
He sheds a little light into his personal life:
Paisting: My age and relationships has nothing to do with this. But not working, no kids or wife and middle aged. What I have is time to play.
I get a little unemployment benefit that goes straight to the rent. My eating costs are very little because I'm only eating one meal per day. There are times when I must take more fast loans if need of clothes, unexpected bills, sickness etc. That's why getting back those $16k is so important to me.
No disability, never played anything else than poker or lottery when pots are bigger, maybe 5 times in year. Playing poker does not give me any excitement or I'm not cheering won pots.
Posters try to give him strategy advice, they try to persuade him time and time again that his strategy isn't working. Some others question his sanity and tell him to quit:
FazendeiroBH: Not trolling, I´m actually serious here. You lost an absurd amount of money playing the easiest stake in the world (nl2). You keep losing doing the same faulty strategy. It´s quite obvious there is something wrong with you and your brain, and the more you delay seeking professional care for your mental problems, the worst it´s gonna be for you.
Paitsing updates his thread with highlight hands from his cash sessions. He seems to cherry pick hands to post and will only post hands where he loses all ins as a 70-95% favourite. He delusion leads him to blame the site, his luck and the other micro grinders. He often writes about specific players and gives his opinion on how badly they play. Some time passes and he discloses that he has lost almost $500 at 2nl since starting the thread three weeks ago.
He updates his followers with the first monthly graph of the thread from his 2nl play in April 2019. He plays for 90 hours in April and his average daily loss is $50, 25 buyins each day. 2+2 players start to analyse the graph. They notice that there are several breakeven spots where he may be playing reasonable poker but also huge 150 buy in downswings, some drops in the graph are so steep that he is losing about a buy in every 5 hands for periods of hundreds of hands. He says:
Paitsing: Only trying to get my money back from guys who are playing nl2 forever and never moving up. When I started poker long time ago I tought it's exciting to read watch videos if it gives me more money. After 2 years figured out it's just sitting on computer like in work and if I'm someday +-0 never ever playing this stupid game. This is like war.
The thread goes on like this for almost a year. The thread repeats itself over and over. He will post a few selective bad beats, ignore good advice and berate his microstakes tablemates. A fellow microstakes grinder makes his first appearance in the thread: 6betpot. 6Betpot would play at Paisting's tables and often win many buy ins, 6Betpot would go on to post highly contrasting hand histories to the unlucky hands that Paisting posts which shows the hands Mikael was not posting. Some players would criticize 6Betpot for predatory behavior but 6Betpot would maintain that he would try to persuade Paisting to stop playing in a crazy manner.
Many tried to reason with Mikael and show him clearly why this was wrong, he not only refuted their strategy but would argue against them.
Later on in the thread Mikael posts horrifying news. He explains that he didn’t transfer hands from his old computer to his new computer. The graphs he posted at the start of the thread only showed the tip of the iceberg. He reveals that $16k loss from the graphs was from just 7 months of play!:
Paisting: That 16k is in 209 days and in about 1 year as you can see from the first post. Big part of my losings has left to hard drive of my old crashed computer. That's past and I don't wanna think about it anymore. Main goal is this database I have here in my computer. But yes what I have been repeating many times, moving to 888 poker has sky rocketed my losses although I can play only 6 tables compared to party's 9 tables.
Posters speculate that his lifetime microstakes losses probably amount to six figures:
SpinMeRightRound: I mean if he's lost $20k in the last year, and he's been doing this for more than 10 years, he may have lost $200k or more.

2020: The Struggle Continues

At the end of the year Paisting posts his 2019 graphs. He says that he hasn’t had a winning week yet and he’s still committed to making back 2019’s losses. His graphs show down 12k from 320k hands of 2nl in 2019.
In January 2020 he continues to post regularly and makes comments about him hunting down players worse than him:
Paisting: When you hunt really bad player (yes enzet there are plenty of worst player than me on 888 look those hand histories really carefully) hours and hours and wait good hand just to site let them to suck out it is affecting your game really badly.
He posts about his continuing struggle to win back the $16k:
Paisting: I have years dedicated for this project and anything back from that amount is winning to me. At this point it’s impossible to make any profit because of horrible suckouts.
He also posts about the high interest loans he’s taken out:
Paisting: I have huge amounts of loans that are basically all taken for poker. I don't eat much and all my other costs are very low.
And because of those loans I must get back so much money that is possible and these suck outs must stop.
February 2020 arrives and he posts his January chart, the worst posted yet. He takes a gigantic loss of $1,550 at an eye-watering rate.
The months pass and the cycle continues. Paisting posts the usual unlucky hands, posters berate him and try to give him advice and Paisting resists their efforts. Here is one of many similar hands posted in February, this hand shows him making an awful play and raising huge with a weak hand:
888Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
UTG: $1.46 (73 bb) Paisting (MP): $7.45 (373 bb) CO: $15.44 (772 bb) BU: $2.00 (100 bb) SB: $3.47 (174 bb) BB: $2.00 (100 bb)
Pre-Flop: ($0.03) 1 fold, Paisting(MP) raises to $7.45 (all-in), CO calls $7.45, 3 players fold
Flop: ($14.93) 6c 7c 4d (2 players, 1 all-in)
Turn: ($14.93) Ts (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($14.93) 8h (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $14.93 (Rake: $0.93)
Showdown: Paisting (MP) shows 7d Tc (two pair, Tens and Sevens) (CO) shows Js Jc (a pair of Jacks) Paisting (MP) wins $14
March comes and the regular monthly graph is posted. The uploaded graph shows is he down $1900 or 950 buy ins for last month. Mikael refutes that he is a gambling addict:
Paisting: 888 has given many 10 dollar bonuses to me play slots. I have never played them and in fact my account has 20 dollars freeplay bonus to play their slots. I will not use those money now or in future. So that's gambling addict to you.
April and May roll by and the monthly graphs are posted. He played fewer hands than normal, 43,000. But is down $1,250, all at 2nl.
In June he posts the usual monthly graph with -$1900 and it’s the lowest win rate he’s posted before, the graph has some alarmingly steep downswings with one section where he loses $500 in 1000 hands. That’s a loss of one buy in every 4 hands. Getting these monthly updates shows how quickly he loses money at 2nl and collaborates with earlier estimations that he is likely down more than $100k at microstakes over the past 14 years.

The End, for Now

Mikael is still playing microstakes to this day. His poker story isn’t over yet but so far it is a sad one. My previous two Tales from 2+2 stories had mostly happy endings but not this one. This story is like a car falling down a cliff and it hasn’t hit the bottom yet.
Let this story be a lesson that poker isn’t for everyone. Players with addiction or mental issues should reconsider if the game is best for their lives. Serious poker players should consider bankroll management and how tilt affects their winrate if they do choose to play.
Seek help if you think you or others need it.
Original thread (Still active)
submitted by GiantHorse to HobbyDrama [link] [comments]

More Tales From 2+2: A Very Controversial $70k prop bet

I enjoyed writing up and seeing positive feedback from this post so I decided to write up about an interesting prop bet that came from the 2+2 poker forums that I feel went under the radar. It's way longer than I thought it would be but this story has it all: large amounts of money being bet, furious grinding, 25 buy in swings, community outrage and Doug Polk.

The Site

The modern cash game grinder may be surprised to hear that there used to be a Sharkscope style tracking website for online cash games, it was called PokerTableRatings or PTR. It tracked hands fairly accurately. Today, it doesn’t exist and has been shut down for years but it was a valuable resource for grinders and having one browser open to check out opponents was useful. PTR showed your graph and win rates at different stakes, it also had an achievement system. Some achievements were serious like ‘1 Million Dollars In Profit’ and some were less serious like ‘Check Raise 3 Times In A Hand’. One coveted achievement given by PTR was the ‘Ultimate Grinder’. This was given to the most profitable player each month at each stake, this was all tracked on the Ultimate Grinder Leaderboard. So for example: if you are the top of the leaderboard for 50NL in December 2008, you will receive the ‘Ultimate Grinder December 50nl 2008’ badge on your PTR profile.

The Bets

The year is 2010. Johnathon Duhamel has won the WSOP Main Event. Poker, especially online poker is still booming. The grinders are plentiful. The fish are more plentiful. Posts flow on 2+2 like wine.
Enter Silent_0ne. He puts out a proposition bet on BBV (Beats, Brags and Variance: a subforum of 2+2 which is the precursor to Poker’s weekly BBV thread). Back in the golden days of online poker and 2+2 it was common for large prop bets to be made on BBV. Silent_0ne’s prop bet is he will be the ultimate grinder for December 2010 at 100nl. No easy feat, the previous months' ultimate grinders had won between $12k-18k and Silent_0ne claimed to have never played more than 10 tables or ever played on Pokerstars. The odds were set at 6:1 odds in Silent’s_0ne’s favour. Jalexand42 was selected to be the escrow and judge of this prop bet, so he will be the middleman for the money and he will arbitrate any disputes. The rules were set down covered many different situations. The judge was confident of this:
Jalexand42: Just a quick note about the judging... I'm optimistic there won't be any controversy in this bet the way the rules have been defined. (#83)
He would turn out to be so wrong.
Many 2+2 posters weighed their opinions in and started to place bets:
Chicago Joey (Joey Ingram): damn that is going to be interesting for a bunch of reasons(#46)
Canoodles: If I was OP, I wouldn't take this for less than 100-1. (#18)
Chinz: Settling for 6-1 and doing it on December when lots of SNE chasers are playing really high volume... You don't seem to like money. (#218)
Nearly all the posters doubted Silent_0ne but he seemed confident and Jalexand42 started collecting money.
By the 28th November, with 3 days to go until the challenge begins the bets were placed and finalized, 14 people put up between $600-$3k. Silent_0ne stood to gain $67,500 or lose $11,250 from the bet alone. In just a few days he would put himself at the mercy of variance and would dedicate himself to destroying 100nl. If he overcomes this challenging month, he stood to win a significant amount of money.

The Play

December the first rolled in and Silent_0ne starting playing. It was a rocky start for him, he finished day two down more than $2k and received comments from 2+2 posters like:
ChicagoJoey [Joey Ingram]: lol trainwreck (#392)
MinSixBet: are you still taking action? (#399)
But some posters really believed in him and were rooting hard:
Eaglesfan1: Forget about the leaderboard and focus on your game and playing ur best. (#406)
However things got worse and Silent_one seemed to be losing hope, on day 4 he posted this:
Silent_0ne: just got owned
bad rly bad "hero call" for big pot
set of 8s < set of As
KK < AK
bad river bluff shove
set of 6s < str
10s < Js
AK < AA
AK on AK6 board < 66
AA < 99 on 974 board
^ all greater than 200 big blind pots
could have prevented half of those if I didnt suck so much (#410)
Day 5 and Silent_0ne was doing better but was down a few buy ins, still far behind his target. Remember, he needs to be number one in profit in the massive 2010 pool of 100nl Pokerstars players. He posted this astonishing hand:
Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em $0.20 Ante - 9 players
Silent_0ne: $568.55 UTG+1: $444.30 UTG+2: $519.10 MP1: $226.75 Hero (MP2): $257.70 CO: $250.00 BTN: $100.00 SB: $257.70 BB: $120.90
Pre Flop: ($3.30) Silent_0ne is MP2 with 9h9c
Silent_0ne raises to $4.80, UTG+1 raises to $18.60, 1 fold, MP1 calls $18.60, 5 folds, Silent_0ne calls $13.80
Flop: ($59.10) 2h8s5s(3 players)
Silent_0ne checks, UTG+1 bets $32, MP1 folds, Silent_0ne raises to $92, UTG+1 calls $60
Turn: ($243.10) Kc (2 players)
Silent_0ne checks, UTG+1 checks
River: ($243.10) 4s (2 players)
Silent_0ne bets $127, UTG+1 raises to $333.50 all in, Silent_0ne calls $206.50
Final Pot: $910.10
Silent_0ne shows 9h9c (a pair of Nines)
UTG+1 shows 9dJc (high card King)
Silent_0ne wins $907.10
As you can see, 2010 was truly an amazing place for online poker.
Silent_0ne was bringing out his inner grinder and was playing 16 hour sessions and seeing huge swings in the first week. Day 7 and he posted some hands that shocked the community and his growing fan base:
DPred123: wtf at those HHs. (#520)
Transa: LoLolLololooLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL (#521)
Here are two of the hands he posted:
Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em $0.20 Ante - 9 players
Pre Flop: ($3.30) MP1: $365.20 Hero (CO): $342.35 Silent_0ne is CO with 7s7d
3 folds, MP1 raises to $4, 1 fold, Silent_0ne raises to $15.50, 3 folds, MP1 raises to $41.90, Silent_0ne raises to $342.15 all in, MP1 calls $300.25
Flop: ($687.60) ThKc6s(2 players - 1 is all in)
Turn: ($687.60) Ts (2 players - 1 is all in)
River: ($687.60) 2h (2 players - 1 is all in)
Final Pot: $687.60
MP1 shows AcAh (two pair, Aces and Tens)
and:
Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em $0.20 Ante - 3 players
BTN: $656.85 Silent_0ne(SB): $288.00 BB: $345.00
Pre Flop: ($2.10) Silent_0ne is SB with 4d4h
BTN raises to $3, Silent_0ne raises to $12, 1 fold, BTN calls $9
Flop: ($25.60) 3h6d5s(2 players)
Silent_0ne checks, BTN bets $18, Silent_0ne raises to $275.80 all in, BTN calls $257.80
Turn: ($577.20) Js (2 players - 1 is all in)
River: ($577.20) 9c (2 players - 1 is all in)
Final Pot: $577.20
BTN shows 3d5d (two pair, Fives and Threes)
Hero Silent_0ne 4h4h (a pair of Fours)
BTN wins $576.20
Silent_0ne explained:
Silent_0ne: barely ate anything last few days. i just get up and play, dont prepare anything. im playing right now btw. down around 2700$ for the month. im really dumb for spewing off 3k+ just cause i was tilted/ran bad, and snapped. another problem that people overlook is the extra attention i get at the tables for doing this prop bet. lots of regs can exploit my plays and then all tend to focus on owning me. (#554)
Silent_0ne had started the month on a $3k downswing, then won $2.5k before going on another $3k downswing in just one week. He must have felt desperate as after an hour and a half Silent_0ne had an idea and events took a shocking turn:
Silent_0ne: any interested if i give up 100nl and start tomorrow on day 7 at 50nl to try and get the badge there for 6 to 1. i wanna gamble and break even on the month, so im willing to put up 5k on this if any1 is interested? (#570)
This new bet must have seemed too good to be true. At this point he had been relentlessly grinding 100nl for a week, was losing badly, he was tilting, was likely playing more tables than he can handle and he’s a week behind getting to the top of the 50nl leaderboard. The bets started to pour in and within an hour he had 7 people place action. The community commented:
Absurd: This is adsurd (#601)
jalexand42: Seriously, take a day to cool off. (#599)
King Fish: I'd be interested but highly advise you to reconsider this and maybe take an hour and step back. Edit: will take $1800 to your $300 assuming same judge and escrow. (#574)
loK2thabrain: I call dibs on first bet when he moves down to win the 25nl badge. (#700)
Everyone on the thread couldn’t believe what they reading, However, Silent_0ne seemed to accept that the 100nl bet was dead and he wasn’t getting the $67k prop bet win. He was willing to pay the $11k out and enter a new prop bet. Now, being the Ultimate Grinder at 50nl is his goal. Again, the bets were substantial and he had 8:1 odds in his favour for being the Ultimate Grinder for December at 50nl. The same day he made the new bet, he started at 50nl and was off.

The New Bet

Enter Fees. Fees is the 2+2 username of Ryan Fee (Currently on Team Upswing), at this point he was known for being a fearsome 2000nl grinder and writing Ryan Fee’s 6 max guide, which he distributed for free. In a world where succinct and good poker strategy was hard to come by, this was a valuable guide for many players. He takes interest in the thread on the 7th of December:
Fees i'll take all the action, PM me (#746)
Fees booked action late and the details of this booking were not listed in the thread. The next day, Fees acts a question about the rules:
Fees: what if kerpowski or jeffmet wins the ugl and he gets second? (#878)
Kerpowski and Jeffmet are players who took action against Silent_0ne. They are also 50/100nl grinders. The case of fellow grinders taking action was covered in the rules. A poster quotes the rules and informs Fees that they have to be existing 50nl/100nl grinders. Fees then asks the following question:
Fees: i think that implies at the same tables as him, but what if they just play completely different games and just win the ugl?
Remember these probing questions, they’ll become relevant later.
By the 10th of December things looked tough for Silent_0ne, the player of the top of the 50nl leaderboard was already at $2.5k profit (50 buy ins). Silent_0ne was up $1.1k and estimated he was only 2-3 days behind pace. By the 12th of December he was still playing brutally long sessions:
Silent_0ne: just finished 11 hour session, too tired to post anything, ill go to bed for a couple hours then post graphs/hands when i wake up. was tilted throughout entire session, played 12k hands...eyes burn...ran bad for once (6 buyins below ev)
He also posted eight hands that looked pretty spewy, here is one of them:
Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em $0.10 Ante - 5 players BB: $50.00 UTG: $103.40 CO: $137.65 BTN: $133.00 Silent_0ne (SB): $144.60
Pre Flop: ($1.25) Hero is SB with AdQh
1 fold, CO raises to $1.50, BTN calls $1.50, Silent_0ne calls $1.25, BB calls $1
Flop: ($6.50) 6c6d6s(4 players)
Silent_0ne checks, BB checks, CO bets $4, BTN folds, Silent_0ne raises to $14.75, BB folds, CO calls $10.75
Turn: ($36.00) 8h (2 players)
Silent_0ne bets $25.75, CO calls $25.75
River: ($87.50) 4d (2 players)
Silent_0ne bets $102.50 all in, CO calls $95.55 all in
Final Pot: $278.60
CO shows JdJc (a full house, Sixes full of Jacks)
Silent_0ne shows AdQh (three of a kind, Sixes)
CO wins $276.60
Even people taking action against him gave him advice:
King Fish: I am speechless … It's NL50. Stop trying to get so fancy. (#1038)
But then, Silent_0ne has an explosive session and is up an incredible $2800 in one day, that’s 56 buy ins! The posters go wild as he moves into 3rd place on the 50nl Ultimate Grinder leaderboard:
  1. vaike $3,142, 19.38 Hands BB/100
  2. zzn1980 $2,833, 2.46 Hands BB/100
  3. Silent_0ne69 $2,634, 5.19 Hands B/100
For the first time people are starting to believe that he can do this.
Fast forward to the next day, December 13th and with another miraculous winning session he reaches number one on the leaderboard. He has $3.4k profit at 50nl and number two is close behind with $3.1k, if he can maintain his win rate of 6b/100 hands then he should have a very real chance of making an incredible comeback.
14th December. Fees posts:
Fees: still taking action, I want 2:1
Despite Silent_0ne being top of the leaderboard when he posted this and Fees already buying action Fees seemed willing to take 2:1 in Silent_0ne’s favour.
Soon after, a poster in the thread reveals that:
tightmaniac: fees is 4th
It is revealed that Fees who is normally a 2000nl player is playing 50nl HU and is 4th on the leaderboard. HU 50nl still counts towards the 50nl leaderboard. With the higher rate of hands of HU, bigger winrates of HU and Fees' skill, it could mean he would soon reach the top of the leaderboard. 10 minutes after TightManic’s post Fees lowers his odds:
Fees: Looking to take action on this at 1:1 (#1180)
The judge weighs in:
Jalexand42: If fees' didn't disclose this to whoever has his action, it's obviously pretty questionable, although that probably should have been asked. As far as the prop bet tho, I specifically asked Silent whether HU players should be included/excluded and he said included. The rules clearly don't exclude some random player from dropping down and playing $50nl (or $100nl for the original bet). They DO clearly state that people who bet against Silent one as part of the prop bet are NOT allowed to interfere with the bet, but I don't have anything to do with whatever side action fees may have on this. I told kerpowski last night that I didn't want him to play HU to try to win the badge, since I felt like it was a gray area in the intent of the rules (since he obviously doesn't normally play those stakes).
Kind of sucks for OP if this is going on, but I can't really change the rules after it's started since that would affect the people that bet against Silent. (#1196)
As of the 15 December Silent_0ne was still top of the board with $4.4k and most posters were expressing their displeasure if Fees were to continue playing 50nl. Silent_0ne drops this bombshell:
Silent_0ne: ‘2. Actions must be in accordance with the intent of having a fair prop bet. No actions (chip dumping, collusion, ghosting/coaching players on Silent_0ne's tables, etc) can be taken with the intent to affect the outcome of the prop bet. Violations will result in the violator's action being forfeited and may result in additional modification/extention to neutralize the interference.’ [Silent_0ne is quoting the rules here.] ‘The spirit of the bet is that OP is competing against players who 'really' play NL100, both ring and heads up.’
I know a friend of Fees and his friend said he was legit and everything. alittle after the bet started and action was full, fees approached me and my friend about taking additional action at 10 to 1. my friend and I took an additional 2.5k to his 25k and escrowed to wcgrider. the bet was under the assumption that the same rules as the 100nl bet were going to be used, and whatever the judge decides would be final.
so given the quotes above, it is against the rules that someone betting against me should also be able to compete against me given that he does not regularly play at 50nl (he plays 6max 2knl and WON the UGL badge last month at that stake) also, im not allowed to play 50nl HU which is really fishy and easy to win the UGL badge at if you put in enough volume.
regardless of if fees action is with Jalex or not, i think the same rules apply, because he is not a regular at the stakes and he accepted the same rules when making the bet with my friend and I going to eat something then start up a grind session, hopefully I continue to crush and run good, though my heart has sunk when I looked at fees in forth, and I feel ill and tilted (#1205)
Silent_0ne posted that he did a deal, off with main thread with 10 to 1 odds (Fees betting $25k to Silent_0ne’s $2.5k that Silent_0ne will win ultimate grinder 50nl) with Fees and that WCGRider (Doug Polk, currently of Upswing Poker and poker Youtube fame) is the escrow, not Jalexand42. Most posters now seem outraged:
King Fish: Wow what an angle shoot by Fees on this. This does help define the measure of what type of person he is that he is even attempting it. (#1207)
Tumaterminator: sickest hustle ever. (#1210)
kp1022: wait, doeboyfre$h is fees?
he sat me in 50nl HU a few days ago FWIW
after PTR'ing him , i asked why was he playing so low? he replied, "busto" (#1234)
Some of the posters were trying to play Fees at the 50nl in attempt to slow down his winning streak and tell Fees that he is breaking the rules. Silent_0ne expressed his displeasure and downed mental state:
Silent_0ne: this is horrible. im going to start my first grind right now. imo what fees is doing is against the rules and is unfair. i really hope i dont lose alot right now, but im in a pretty poor emotional state
please whoever is decent, sit it up with fees and discouarge him to continue what hes doing. 2knl player won badge last month, makes big bet against me and decides to compete for 50nl badge against me... (#1267)
For the first time in a few days Fees posts:
Fees: Hey,
Just to clear a few things up,
  1. I haven't broken any rules, there isn't a rule that explicitly states that I cannot win the UGL.
  2. I'm not trying to scam/do anything shady/etc, when I made the bet I posted in this thread asking if a bettor could win the UGL […] anyway I'm going to try and win the 50nl UGL this month... I haven't done anything wrong and there is nothing wrong with me going for it.
Then, an enflamed debate about the rules erupts, almost every poster is furious at Fees
Silent_0ne: had a conversation with WCGRider over the phone. the assumption was that jalex is the judge of this bet, and his word is final. WCGRider is simply just an escrow. fees and I agreed on the rules of the bet and having jalex of the judge. #1352
Then WCGRider (Doug Polk) posts for the first time:
WCGRider: Wanted to make a quick post here because i talked to colin earlier about this and i want to clear up a few things.
First off, I was never told i was going to be an escrow. I literally woke up with colins [Silent_0ne] money in my account. I was never asked anything, I was never told anything, I just was sent the money and thats it.
So now im being brought into this to make a decision, which i dont think really is fair. I haven't read any of this thread, I haven't read the rules. Also, fees has to be one of my best friends here in las vegas, and I want that to be clear before i give my opinion about this. I think its sort of unfair that i get put into this situation.
jalexand42 then posts his judgment in a lengthy post (#1526) but I believe this excerpt sums it up:
jalexand42: So, while it is not UNFAIR of fees to be playing $50nl, he has CLEARLY taken actions that will influence the outcome of the bet IF he wins the UGL for $50nl for December. Fees would clearly NOT be playing $50nl (and in fact is still playing his normal stakes) if he didn't have action on this bet. Fees also clearly understood this was a questionable area with regard to the rules based on his posts in this thread and he did not clarify it with the judge. He posts also indicate clearly that he felt he was subject to the rules. Therefore, I rule that Fees' standing on the UGL for December WILL BE IGNORED for purposes of determining this bet if he wins.
Many posters praise Jalexand42. But Jalexand42 does not have the money from the sidebet between Silent_0ne and Fees. WCGrider does. Silent_0ne gives his piece of mind and a quick poker update:
Silent_0ne: yes, i agree with this [Jalexand42's judgment].
also, fees can keep the 25k in the bet without any forfiet. im just really happy things worked out okay.
however i probably should have read this before my session I just played. probably wouldnt have spewed as much at the endodays been my worst day since the start of the 50nl bet so far. gonna play 1 more session later tonight and going to be in alot better and focused mood (#1561)
Then, another bombshell drops, a friend of WCRrider’s reveals that Fees didn’t even escrow his money to Doug:
theskillzdatklls: Afaik, Fees did not ship his $25k share to Doug, only Colin [Silent_0ne] sent his part. (#1669)
2+2 reacts:
Handbaggio: LOL wtf, fees hasn't escrowed his bet??? (#1676)
rnb0sprnkles: LOL and when I thought the drama was starting to die down, the thread gets even crazier (#1698)
Jalexand42 has a conversation with WCGRider to reach an agreement and reports:
Jalexand42: Okay, so here's the summary of my conversation with WCGRider:
  1. He is only holding Silent & the_most's action, $2,500.
  2. He did talk to Fees. Fees told him he was going to talk to Colin [Silent_0ne] today and 'hopes to work out something reasonable'.
  3. I asked what that means, he said he didn't feel like he could tell me, because he felt like what Fees told him was as a friend, but that it sounded fair in WCGRider's opinion.
  4. WCGRider said he thought my decision making sounded reasonable.
  5. WCGrider said that noone told him what to do, so he figured he was just holding on to Silent's money.
  6. I told WCGrider I was willing for him to ship me the $2.5k now if he was feeling uncomfortable, he said he'd wait to see what Silent & Fees work out. ( #1703)
Back to actual poker and Silent_0ne reports a bad losing session on the 16th December citing all the ongoing drama:
Silent_0ne: 22 buyin downswing im playing really bad right now, and I really wish I didn't have to think about and deal with all these other problems.
The community are rooting really hard to him at this point and are all telling him to stay strong. Things start to get messy when Jalexand42 speaks with WCGRider and Fees and in a long post ( #1957) said that WCGRider protested his participation was unfair and Jalexand42 accused him of not of not already sending the $25k to Jalexand42. Fees also tried to offer Silent_0ne a $1k buy out saying it was ‘super generous’, it was refused. Silent_0ne states that the reason fees doesn't want his money escrowed by Jalexand42 is that he is afraid that his bet will be forfeited due to breaking the rules. WCGRider chimed in to defend himself (he also spoke about playing 50nl-100nl and having a rough year, which is interesting as he developed into the top HU player for a time and couldn’t get action, even at the highest stakes.) The 2+2 community then debate and lightly harass WCGRider and Fees to concede and send the money to Jalexand42. Fees finally agrees to a 50% buyout.

The Outcome

On the 17th of December and Silent_0ne slips to number 2 on the leaderboards.
  1. vaike $3,835 ,17.44BB/100
  2. Silent_0ne69 $3,523, 4.25BB/100
Silent_0ne then makes a post that changes everything:
Silent_0ne : Hello everyone
firstly, I would like to say thank you so much to everyone who supported me throughout this bet. i cant stress how much it meant to me to see any post wishing me goodluck, or someone pming me given me some life lessons and more encouragement.
ive been approached by the bettors on numerous occasions regarding a buyout. the original buyout deal offered was 33%. eventually 37% was offered, and then 44%, and finally I agreed on 50% of total wagers from all 6 bettors as their buyout.
I am not really satisfied with a buyout, and I was not the one originally looking for the buyout. the bettors wanted it and I decided to see what they had to offer. what I wanted was time to spend with friends and family throughout the christmas break. With continuing this bet, I do have alot of confidence of accomplishing it, but at the expense of isolation through one of the most special times of each year. My family was mad at me when I tried explaining to them I probably wouldn't be able to particpate in any family events and have much if any celebration of christmas.
my goal the next 14 days was to just grind it out 10 hours each day with breaks inbetween, and sleep. Instead I will be able to go back to my regular, stress free grinding, and shipping 50% of the total wagers after half the month as gone by. In the end, including both the 100nl and 50nl prop bets, I made a net of roughly +20k. The other two options would be risking a net of -20k or a net of +60k. I took the variance free route, and all the bettors did the same thing. None of us wanted to lose the bet obviously, so I think we worked out a fair resolution with this buyout.
I have no hard feelings against fees or wcg rider. Perhaps a different scenerio would have occured if the recent issues did not occur, but thats in the past now and i'm looking forwards to a postive future. (#2511)
So, in the end all the parties involved reached a buyout agreement on the 50nl prop bet. Silent_0ne would stop playing the 50nl prop bet and would be up $20k. The community replies:
Ditch Digger: Silent, nice job. 50% is more than reasonable. (#2516)
kelnel: gg on +20k, u rocked!! (#2520)
shhhnake_eyes: I call this the most anticlimactic finish ever. (#2522)
Link to original thread.
Note: Please note I’ve tried to be impartial in writing this. Please let me know publicly or privately if there are any errors or you feel I misrepresented something or someone. The quotes I’ve included don’t always show the full post made but I’ve included the post number in each quote so you can read it on 2+2 in full context. If you want to be fully informed you should read the whole 2+2 thread.
submitted by GiantHorse to poker [link] [comments]

Hand review: buttons were clicked

Hand 1: Deep in a $22 on BOL (last 20-30 or so?).
BTN (BTN): 25.3 BB Hero (SB): 17.28 BB, winning reg, A3s, HUD showing 25/21/11 BB (BB): 69.97 BB, winning reg, HUD showing 20/16/9 UTG (UTG): 27.59 BB UTG+1 (UTG+1): 9.1 BB MP (MP): 12.26 BB CO (CO): 5.24 BB
Pre: Folds to Hero, Hero calls 0.5 BB, BB checks
Flop (2.7 BB, 2 players): 5h Td 9d
Hero bets 1 BB, BB raises to 2.79 BB, Hero raises to 16.18 BB, BB calls 13.39 BB
Turn: 3h; River: Qs. V shows T5o, flopped 2-pair.
Preflop I'm calling most suited aces and raising mostly unsuited aces. On the flop I'm min-betting a huge range since the population overfolds BB vs. SB, and with an over and nut FD I think I can get it in here for 17BB. I'm a bit too deep to check shove, which inclines me to bet. Not ecstatic about getting 2-bet but V should have one pairs and draws in his range. (Flop 2-bet: 3/17 fwiw.) I don't love calling OOP on the flop, so going over the top preferred?
Hand 2: BOL $11, not sure how deep we are, blinds at 2k/4k.
UTG (UTG): 18.8 BB UTG+1 (UTG+1): 11.1 BB Hero (MP): 33.14 BB, AdAs, HUD: 17/17/6 MP+1 (MP+1): 13.84 BB MP+2 (MP+2): 13.71 BB CO (CO): 8.32 BB BTN (BTN): 19.53 BB SB (SB): 8.13 BB BB (BB): 18.77 BB, HUD: 20/18/5
Hero raises to 2 BB, BB calls
Flop (5.4 BB, 2 players): Tc3c2c BB checks, Hero bets 1.94 BB, BB calls 1.94 BB
No club for me but I think I am still betting this. Population overfolds here, I almost always have the best hand, I can get value/deny equity from junky hands with one club.
Turn (9.29 BB, 2 players): 5h BB checks, Hero checks
I think AA works better to bluff catch here rather than hammer away for value. I could get another street of value from Tx, but I think a lot of those hands bluff the river anyway.
River (9.29 BB, 2 players): 8d BB bets 6.22 BB, Hero calls
I don't have a good sense of this player's strategy but I checked turn to induce, so I can't imagine doing anything but calling on this blank river.
BB shows: Qc6c (Flush, Queen High) (Pre 18%, Flop 97%, Turn 100%)
Hand 3: didn't I promise button clicking? Get ready. Midway through a BOL $11, not too close to the money yet.
SB (SB): 44.32 BB, HUD: 33/17/0 BB (BB): 12.35 BB Hero (UTG): 30.18 BB, Ac8c, HUD: 19/13/6 UTG+1 (UTG+1): 34.11 BB MP (MP): 31.95 BB MP+1 (MP+1): 13.74 BB MP+2 (MP+2): 19.79 BB CO (CO): 16.44 BB BTN (BTN): 12.18 BB
Hero raises to 2 BB, SB calls 1.5 BB.
Flop (5.9 BB, 2 players): Ks9cJc SB bets 2.95 BB, Hero calls 2.95 BB
Turn (11.8 BB, 2 players): 2c SB bets 5.9 BB, Hero calls 5.9 BB
River (23.6 BB, 2 players): 2s SB bets 11.8 BB, Hero calls 11.8 BB
I win almost every time, but I'm worried about value owning myself if I raise here. I put him on a bluff or maybe Kx most of the time, and I'm not sure I get value from those hands. Still, I think I need to give KQ or KJ the opportunity to hang themselves and pay me 8BB more.
SB shows: 3c3h (Two Pair, Threes and Twos) (Pre 51%, Flop 45%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins 47.2 BB
submitted by timfriese to poker [link] [comments]

Newbie Question - Playing Too Tight?

TLDR - Older guy in Vegas told me that my ranges are way too tight and I need to be more of a "LAG". Not sure if he was bluffing me even outside the tables.
I've only been playing a little over a year, Every Friday with buddies and twice I have braved the Poker Room in Vegas only to have my ass handed to me (which was expected). I was mostly paying for the experience of being in there and getting a feel for what it was like to be at a real table to be honest.
Anyway, after losing my $200 (2/4 NL game) one gentleman was kind enough to talk to me and after listening to my "strategy" he offered some advice. He mentioned that I was way too tight with my ranges. I thought that as a newbie I should play in a relatively tight range since I was just learning the ropes.
I haven't been able to grasp the the details of playing each individual position so I try and play in ranges based off early, mid, or late.
Here is what my general idea is for PreFlop:
Early - 8+ pairs, AKs, AQs, AJs, KQs, KJs, A10s-A8s
Mid- Add in 7+ pairs, any Broadway, A+anything suited
Late - add in 7+ suited connectors, any K, any A.
Post Flop is a whole other story because unless I hit something I will be willing to bet on like trips, flush/straight draw, 2 top pair, I usually let the more experienced players battle it out since I'm not skilled enough to bluff and I'm still learning to count my outs/pot odds so if I'm not confident in the math I just sit back and learn from my mistakes.
I know it a long post so thanks for your time and I appreciate your input.
submitted by FakeAcctSnoo to poker [link] [comments]

Dyscalculia and me...

Dyscalculia is like dyslexia but with numbers and formulas. For example, when I try and study equity betting, value betting, etc. it is like reading Mandarin. Numbers are backwards, or out of place, like I see 3456 as 3546, etc... Things as simple as making change for a dollar take me some time. I am 40+ and it has been an issue for a long time but it is what it is. I'm not 'dumb' by any means, I just can't do math worth a donkey turd.

With that in mind are there any resources that explain a more advanced strategy of poker but are not so math heavy?

Things I want to get better at are improving on playing in position, better understand bet sizing at each position, improving my pre flop strategy when bluffing, and formulating a simple betting strategy that doesn't require a pocket calculator. Less book smart, more street smart if that makes sense.

As I re-read this it sounds very much like a /choosingbeggers post so please don't take it as such. I just want to improve my game and it's a bit frustrating when a stupid tic in the brain keeps you from progressing in something you love.
submitted by VoldemortPartDeux to poker [link] [comments]

Best Poker Tips for Beginners – Strategy For Winners : Play tight but aggressive

Many amateur players make a huge mistake of playing too wide and opening too many Texas Holdem hands. The key when you are starting out is to play only your strongest hands to keep your VPIP poker stat at a lower side and avoid many tough decisions post-flop. This will let you play less, but more aggressively when you decide to take your hand into action.
Most of your opponents in low games going to be playing random hands a lot of the time and taking this poker tip alone will let you start ahead of them. Using this you will be able to learn poker strategy without losing money and in a much more effective way.
So be raising and betting yourself when you play instead of just calling and put maximum pressure on your opponents. Knowing that you have the advantage of holding better hands pre-flop you will be just winning against their range of cards in the long run.
submitted by PresentType to ewww99pokerid [link] [comments]

Is donk-betting 1/4 pot on flop a popular strategy?

I'm seeing it a ton the last few days. I'll raise pre in mid or late position and one of the blinds comes along to see a flop. Then they bet like around 1/4 pot into me. Is this some kinda strategy I'm unaware of? Might be a dumb question...just noticed it happening a lot more often.
submitted by foreverindebted to poker [link] [comments]

[Online Poker/Proposition Bets] A Very Controversial $70k Proposition Bet

I wrote this article on poker and I thought it would go down well here, it has some online poker hand histories and some poker lingo but it’s not vital to the story. The post is pretty long but it’s got it all: large amounts of money being bet, degenerate behavior and community outrage in the world of online poker. To give some context, poker was and still is taken very seriously by many people. Some of these poker players are professional players and some are professional players online. Online poker was very popular between ‘The Poker Boom’ of 2003 and ‘Black Friday’ of 2011 and serious money could be made with hard work, careful money management and discipline. It was (and still could be) possible to achieve winrates of $20-300+ an hour. The 2+2 Poker forums were incredibly popular during these times; the following post chronicles a proposition bet on the 2+2 forums. A proposition bet is where someone takes bets on the likelihood of them completing a task.
Here’s a quick glossary:
Buy in: The normal amount of money that you buy in for in a poker cash game
50nl/100nl: The way to describe online stakes. 50nl means the big blind is 50 cents and that the normal buy in is for $50, $100nl means the big blind is $1 and the normal buy in is $100.
HU: Heads up, this means just two players in a hand. It’s considered to be a skillful and difficult form of poker
Escrow: A third party who takes care of cash in a bet or trade. They should only move cash as agreed by both sides or the rules set.
Grinder: Some who plays a large volume of hands. Usually a serious player. If they play online, they may play 4-12 tables of poker at once.
Fish: A weaker poker player

The Site

The modern cash game grinder may be surprised to hear that there used to be a Sharkscope style tracking website for online cash games, it was called PokerTableRatings or PTR. It tracked hands fairly accurately. Today, it doesn’t exist and has been shut down for years but it was a valuable resource for grinders and having one browser open to check out opponents was useful. PTR showed your graph and win rates at different stakes, it also had an achievement system. Some achievements were serious like ‘1 Million Dollars In Profit’ and some were less serious like ‘Check Raise 3 Times In A Hand’. One coveted achievement given by PTR was the ‘Ultimate Grinder’. This was given to the most profitable player each month at each stake, this was all tracked on the Ultimate Grinder Leaderboard. So for example: if you are the top of the leaderboard for 50NL in December 2008, you will receive the ‘Ultimate Grinder December 50nl 2008’ badge on your PTR profile.

The Bets

The year is 2010. Johnathon Duhamel has won the WSOP Main Event. Poker, especially online poker is still booming. The grinders are plentiful. The fish are more plentiful. Posts flow on 2+2 like wine.
Enter Silent_0ne. He puts out a proposition bet on BBV (Beats, Brags and Variance: a subforum of 2+2 which is the precursor to Poker’s weekly BBV thread). Back in the golden days of online poker and 2+2 it was common for large prop bets to be made on BBV. Silent_0ne’s prop bet is he will be the ultimate grinder for December 2010 at 100nl. No easy feat, the previous months' ultimate grinders had won between $12k-18k and Silent_0ne claimed to have never played more than 10 tables or ever played on Pokerstars. The odds were set at 6:1 odds in Silent’s_0ne’s favour. Jalexand42 was selected to be the escrow and judge of this prop bet, so he will be the middleman for the money and he will arbitrate any disputes. The rules were set down covered many different situations. The judge was confident of this:
Jalexand42: Just a quick note about the judging... I'm optimistic there won't be any controversy in this bet the way the rules have been defined. (#83)
He would turn out to be so wrong.
Many 2+2 posters weighed their opinions in and started to place bets:
Chicago Joey (Joey Ingram): damn that is going to be interesting for a bunch of reasons(#46)
Canoodles: If I was OP, I wouldn't take this for less than 100-1. (#18)
Chinz: Settling for 6-1 and doing it on December when lots of SNE chasers are playing really high volume... You don't seem to like money. (#218)
Nearly all the posters doubted Silent_0ne but he seemed confident and Jalexand42 started collecting money.
By the 28th November, with 3 days to go until the challenge begins the bets were placed and finalized, 14 people put up between $600-$3k. Silent_0ne stood to gain $67,500 or lose $11,250 from the bet alone. In just a few days he would put himself at the mercy of variance and would dedicate himself to destroying 100nl. If he overcomes this challenging month, he stood to win a significant amount of money.

The Play

December the first rolled in and Silent_0ne starting playing. It was a rocky start for him, he finished day two down more than $2k and received comments from 2+2 posters like:
ChicagoJoey [Joey Ingram]: lol trainwreck (#392)
MinSixBet: are you still taking action? (#399)
But some posters really believed in him and were rooting hard:
Eaglesfan1: Forget about the leaderboard and focus on your game and playing ur best. (#406)
However things got worse and Silent_one seemed to be losing hope, on day 4 he posted this:
Silent_0ne: just got owned
bad rly bad "hero call" for big pot
set of 8s < set of As
KK < AK
bad river bluff shove
set of 6s < str
10s < Js
AK < AA
AK on AK6 board < 66
AA < 99 on 974 board
^ all greater than 200 big blind pots
could have prevented half of those if I didnt suck so much (#410)
Day 5 and Silent_0ne was doing better but was down a few buy ins, still far behind his target. Remember, he needs to be number one in profit in the massive 2010 pool of 100nl Pokerstars players. He posted this astonishing hand:
Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em $0.20 Ante - 9 players
Silent_0ne: $568.55 UTG+1: $444.30 UTG+2: $519.10 MP1: $226.75 Hero (MP2): $257.70 CO: $250.00 BTN: $100.00 SB: $257.70 BB: $120.90
Pre Flop: ($3.30) Silent_0ne is MP2 with 9h9c
Silent_0ne raises to $4.80, UTG+1 raises to $18.60, 1 fold, MP1 calls $18.60, 5 folds, Silent_0ne calls $13.80
Flop: ($59.10) 2h8s5s(3 players)
Silent_0ne checks, UTG+1 bets $32, MP1 folds, Silent_0ne raises to $92, UTG+1 calls $60
Turn: ($243.10) Kc (2 players)
Silent_0ne checks, UTG+1 checks
River: ($243.10) 4s (2 players)
Silent_0ne bets $127, UTG+1 raises to $333.50 all in, Silent_0ne calls $206.50
Final Pot: $910.10
Silent_0ne shows 9h9c (a pair of Nines)
UTG+1 shows 9dJc (high card King)
Silent_0ne wins $907.10
As you can see, 2010 was truly an amazing place for online poker.
Silent_0ne was bringing out his inner grinder and was playing 16 hour sessions and seeing huge swings in the first week. Day 7 and he posted some hands that shocked the community and his growing fan base:
DPred123: wtf at those HHs. (#520)
Transa: LoLolLololooLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL (#521)
Here are two of the hands he posted:
Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em $0.20 Ante - 9 players
Pre Flop: ($3.30) MP1: $365.20 Hero (CO): $342.35 Silent_0ne is CO with 7s7d
3 folds, MP1 raises to $4, 1 fold, Silent_0ne raises to $15.50, 3 folds, MP1 raises to $41.90, Silent_0ne raises to $342.15 all in, MP1 calls $300.25
Flop: ($687.60) ThKc6s(2 players - 1 is all in)
Turn: ($687.60) Ts
River: ($687.60) 2h (2 players - 1 is all in)
Final Pot: $687.60
MP1 shows AcAh (two pair, Aces and Tens)
and:
Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em $0.20 Ante - 3 players
BTN: $656.85 Silent_0ne(SB): $288.00 BB: $345.00
Pre Flop: ($2.10) Silent_0ne is SB with 4d4h
BTN raises to $3, Silent_0ne raises to $12, 1 fold, BTN calls $9
Flop: ($25.60) 3h6d5s(2 players)
Silent_0ne checks, BTN bets $18, Silent_0ne raises to $275.80 all in, BTN calls $257.80
Turn: ($577.20) Js (2 players - 1 is all in)
River: ($577.20) 9c (2 players - 1 is all in)
Final Pot: $577.20
BTN shows 3d5d (two pair, Fives and Threes)
Hero Silent_0ne 4h4h (a pair of Fours)
BTN wins $576.20
Silent_0ne explained:
Silent_0ne: barely ate anything last few days. i just get up and play, dont prepare anything. im playing right now btw. down around 2700$ for the month. im really dumb for spewing off 3k+ just cause i was tilted/ran bad, and snapped. another problem that people overlook is the extra attention i get at the tables for doing this prop bet. lots of regs can exploit my plays and then all tend to focus on owning me. (#554)
Silent_0ne had started the month on a $3k downswing, then won $2.5k before going on another $3k downswing in just one week. He must have felt desperate as after an hour and a half Silent_0ne had an idea and events took a shocking turn:
Silent_0ne: any interested if i give up 100nl and start tomorrow on day 7 at 50nl to try and get the badge there for 6 to 1. i wanna gamble and break even on the month, so im willing to put up 5k on this if any1 is interested? (#570)
This new bet must have seemed too good to be true. At this point he had been relentlessly grinding 100nl for a week, was losing badly, he was tilting, was likely playing more tables than he can handle and he’s a week behind getting to the top of the 50nl leaderboard. The bets started to pour in and within an hour he had 7 people place action. The community commented:
Absurd: This is adsurd (#601)
jalexand42: Seriously, take a day to cool off. (#599)
King Fish: I'd be interested but highly advise you to reconsider this and maybe take an hour and step back. Edit: will take $1800 to your $300 assuming same judge and escrow. (#574)
loK2thabrain: I call dibs on first bet when he moves down to win the 25nl badge. (#700)
Everyone on the thread couldn’t believe what they reading, However, Silent_0ne seemed to accept that the 100nl bet was dead and he wasn’t getting the $67k prop bet win. He was willing to pay the $11k out and enter a new prop bet. Now, being the Ultimate Grinder at 50nl is his goal. Again, the bets were substantial and he had 8:1 odds in his favour for being the Ultimate Grinder for December at 50nl. The same day he made the new bet, he started at 50nl and was off.

The New Bet

Enter Fees. Fees is the 2+2 username of Ryan Fee (Currently on Team Upswing), at this point he was known for being a fearsome 2000nl grinder and writing Ryan Fee’s 6 max guide, which he distributed for free. In a world where succinct and good poker strategy was hard to come by, this was a valuable guide for many players. He takes interest in the thread on the 7th of December:
Fees i'll take all the action, PM me (#746)
Fees booked action late and the details of this booking were not listed in the thread. The next day, Fees acts a question about the rules:
Fees: what if kerpowski or jeffmet wins the ugl and he gets second? (#878)
Kerpowski and Jeffmet are players who took action against Silent_0ne. They are also 50/100nl grinders. The case of fellow grinders taking action was covered in the rules. A poster quotes the rules and informs Fees that they have to be existing 50nl/100nl grinders. Fees then asks the following question:
Fees: i think that implies at the same tables as him, but what if they just play completely different games and just win the ugl?
Remember these probing questions, they’ll become relevant later.
By the 10th of December things looked tough for Silent_0ne, the player of the top of the 50nl leaderboard was already at $2.5k profit (50 buy ins). Silent_0ne was up $1.1k and estimated he was only 2-3 days behind pace. By the 12th of December he was still playing brutally long sessions:
Silent_0ne: just finished 11 hour session, too tired to post anything, ill go to bed for a couple hours then post graphs/hands when i wake up. was tilted throughout entire session, played 12k hands...eyes burn...ran bad for once (6 buyins below ev)
He also posted eight hands that looked pretty spewy, here is one of them:
Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em $0.10 Ante - 5 players BB: $50.00 UTG: $103.40 CO: $137.65 BTN: $133.00 Silent_0ne (SB): $144.60
Pre Flop: ($1.25) Hero is SB with AdQh
1 fold, CO raises to $1.50, BTN calls $1.50, Silent_0ne calls $1.25, BB calls $1
Flop: ($6.50) 6c6d6s(4 players)
Silent_0ne checks, BB checks, CO bets $4, BTN folds, Silent_0ne raises to $14.75, BB folds, CO calls $10.75
Turn: ($36.00) 8h (2 players)
Silent_0ne bets $25.75, CO calls $25.75
River: ($87.50) 4d (2 players)
Silent_0ne bets $102.50 all in, CO calls $95.55 all in
Final Pot: $278.60
CO shows JdJc (a full house, Sixes full of Jacks)
Silent_0ne shows AdQh (three of a kind, Sixes)
CO wins $276.60
Even people taking action against him gave him advice:
King Fish: I am speechless … It's NL50. Stop trying to get so fancy. (#1038)
But then, Silent_0ne has an explosive session and is up an incredible $2800 in one day, that’s 56 buy ins! The posters go wild as he moves into 3rd place on the 50nl Ultimate Grinder leaderboard:
  1. vaike $3,142, 19.38 Hands BB/100
  2. zzn1980 $2,833, 2.46 Hands BB/100
  3. Silent_0ne69 $2,634, 5.19 Hands B/100
For the first time people are starting to believe that he can do this.
Fast forward to the next day, December 13th and with another miraculous winning session he reaches number one on the leaderboard. He has $3.4k profit at 50nl and number two is close behind with $3.1k, if he can maintain his win rate of 6b/100 hands then he should have a very real chance of making incredible comeback.
14th December. Fees posts:
Fees: still taking action, I want 2:1
Despite Silent_0ne being top of the leaderboard when he posted this and Fees already buying action Fees seemed willing to take 2:1 in Silent_0ne’s favour.
Soon after, a poster in the thread reveals that:
tightmaniac: fees is 4th
It is revealed that Fees who is normally a 2000nl player is playing 50nl HU and is 4th on the leaderboard. HU 50nl still counts towards the 50nl leaderboard. With the higher rate of hands of HU, bigger winrates of HU and Fees' skill, it could mean he would soon reach the top of the leaderboard. 10 minutes after TightManic’s post Fees lowers his odds:
Fees: Looking to take action on this at 1:1 (#1180)
The judge weighs in:
Jalexand42: If fees' didn't disclose this to whoever has his action, it's obviously pretty questionable, although that probably should have been asked. As far as the prop bet tho, I specifically asked Silent whether HU players should be included/excluded and he said included. The rules clearly don't exclude some random player from dropping down and playing $50nl (or $100nl for the original bet). They DO clearly state that people who bet against Silent one as part of the prop bet are NOT allowed to interfere with the bet, but I don't have anything to do with whatever side action fees may have on this. I told kerpowski last night that I didn't want him to play HU to try to win the badge, since I felt like it was a gray area in the intent of the rules (since he obviously doesn't normally play those stakes).
Kind of sucks for OP if this is going on, but I can't really change the rules after it's started since that would affect the people that bet against Silent. (#1196)
As of the 15 December Silent_0ne was still top of the board with $4.4k and most posters were expressing their displeasure if Fees were to continue playing 50nl. Silent_0ne drops this bombshell:
Silent_0ne: ‘2. Actions must be in accordance with the intent of having a fair prop bet. No actions (chip dumping, collusion, ghosting/coaching players on Silent_0ne's tables, etc) can be taken with the intent to affect the outcome of the prop bet. Violations will result in the violator's action being forfeited and may result in additional modification/extention to neutralize the interference.’ [Silent_0ne is quoting the rules here.] ‘The spirit of the bet is that OP is competing against players who 'really' play NL100, both ring and heads up.’
I know a friend of Fees and his friend said he was legit and everything. alittle after the bet started and action was full, fees approached me and my friend about taking additional action at 10 to 1. my friend and I took an additional 2.5k to his 25k and escrowed to wcgrider. the bet was under the assumption that the same rules as the 100nl bet were going to be used, and whatever the judge decides would be final.
so given the quotes above, it is against the rules that someone betting against me should also be able to compete against me given that he does not regularly play at 50nl (he plays 6max 2knl and WON the UGL badge last month at that stake) also, im not allowed to play 50nl HU which is really fishy and easy to win the UGL badge at if you put in enough volume.
regardless of if fees action is with Jalex or not, i think the same rules apply, because he is not a regular at the stakes and he accepted the same rules when making the bet with my friend and I going to eat something then start up a grind session, hopefully I continue to crush and run good, though my heart has sunk when I looked at fees in forth, and I feel ill and tilted (#1205)
Silent_0ne posted that he did a deal, off with main thread with 10 to 1 odds (Fees betting $25k to Silent_0ne’s $2.5k that Silent_0ne will win ultimate grinder 50nl) with Fees and that WCGRider (Doug Polk, currently of Upswing Poker and poker Youtube fame) is the escrow, not Jalexand42. Most posters now seem outraged:
King Fish: Wow what an angle shoot by Fees on this. This does help define the measure of what type of person he is that he is even attempting it. (#1207)
Tumaterminator: sickest hustle ever. (#1210)
kp1022: wait, doeboyfre$h is fees?
he sat me in 50nl HU a few days ago FWIW
after PTR'ing him , i asked why was he playing so low? he replied, "busto" (#1234)
Some of the posters were trying to play Fees at the 50nl in attempt to slow down his winning streak and tell Fees that he is breaking the rules. Silent_0ne expressed his displeasure and downed mental state:
Silent_0ne: this is horrible. im going to start my first grind right now. imo what fees is doing is against the rules and is unfair. i really hope i dont lose alot right now, but im in a pretty poor emotional state
please whoever is decent, sit it up with fees and discouarge him to continue what hes doing. 2knl player won badge last month, makes big bet against me and decides to compete for 50nl badge against me... (#1267)
For the first time in a few days Fees posts:
Fees: Hey,
Just to clear a few things up,
  1. I haven't broken any rules, there isn't a rule that explicitly states that I cannot win the UGL.
  2. I'm not trying to scam/do anything shady/etc, when I made the bet I posted in this thread asking if a bettor could win the UGL […] anyway I'm going to try and win the 50nl UGL this month... I haven't done anything wrong and there is nothing wrong with me going for it.
Then, an enflamed debate about the rules erupts, almost every poster is furious at Fees
Silent_0ne: had a conversation with WCGRider over the phone. the assumption was that jalex is the judge of this bet, and his word is final. WCGRider is simply just an escrow. fees and I agreed on the rules of the bet and having jalex of the judge. #1352
Then WCGRider (Doug Polk) posts for the first time:
WCGRider: Wanted to make a quick post here because i talked to colin earlier about this and i want to clear up a few things.
First off, I was never told i was going to be an escrow. I literally woke up with colins [Silent_0ne] money in my account. I was never asked anything, I was never told anything, I just was sent the money and thats it.
So now im being brought into this to make a decision, which i dont think really is fair. I haven't read any of this thread, I haven't read the rules. Also, fees has to be one of my best friends here in las vegas, and I want that to be clear before i give my opinion about this. I think its sort of unfair that i get put into this situation.
jalexand42 then posts his judgment in a lengthy post (#1526) but I believe this excerpt sums it up:
jalexand42: So, while it is not UNFAIR of fees to be playing $50nl, he has CLEARLY taken actions that will influence the outcome of the bet IF he wins the UGL for $50nl for December. Fees would clearly NOT be playing $50nl (and in fact is still playing his normal stakes) if he didn't have action on this bet. Fees also clearly understood this was a questionable area with regard to the rules based on his posts in this thread and he did not clarify it with the judge. He posts also indicate clearly that he felt he was subject to the rules. Therefore, I rule that Fees' standing on the UGL for December WILL BE IGNORED for purposes of determining this bet if he wins.
Many posters praise Jalexand42. But Jalexand42 does not have the money from the sidebet between Silent_0ne and Fees. WCGrider does. Silent_0ne gives his piece of mind and a quick poker update:
Silent_0ne: yes, i agree with this [Jalexand42's judgment].
also, fees can keep the 25k in the bet without any forfiet. im just really happy things worked out okay.
however i probably should have read this before my session I just played. probably wouldnt have spewed as much at the endodays been my worst day since the start of the 50nl bet so far. gonna play 1 more session later tonight and going to be in alot better and focused mood (#1561)
Then, another bombshell drops, a friend of WCRrider’s reveals that Fees didn’t even escrow his money to Doug:
theskillzdatklls: Afaik, Fees did not ship his $25k share to Doug, only Colin [Silent_0ne] sent his part. (#1669)
2+2 reacts:
Handbaggio: LOL wtf, fees hasn't escrowed his bet??? (#1676)
rnb0sprnkles: LOL and when I thought the drama was starting to die down, the thread gets even crazier (#1698)
Jalexand42 has a conversation with WCGRider to reach an agreement and reports:
Jalexand42: Okay, so here's the summary of my conversation with WCGRider:
  1. He is only holding Silent & the_most's action, $2,500.
  2. He did talk to Fees. Fees told him he was going to talk to Colin [Silent_0ne] today and 'hopes to work out something reasonable'.
  3. I asked what that means, he said he didn't feel like he could tell me, because he felt like what Fees told him was as a friend, but that it sounded fair in WCGRider's opinion.
  4. WCGRider said he thought my decision making sounded reasonable.
  5. WCGrider said that noone told him what to do, so he figured he was just holding on to Silent's money.
  6. I told WCGrider I was willing for him to ship me the $2.5k now if he was feeling uncomfortable, he said he'd wait to see what Silent & Fees work out. ( #1703)
Back to actual poker and Silent_0ne reports a bad losing session on the 16th December citing all the ongoing drama:
Silent_0ne: 22 buyin downswing im playing really bad right now, and I really wish I didn't have to think about and deal with all these other problems.
The community are rooting really hard to him at this point and are all telling him to stay strong. Things start to get messy when Jalexand42 speaks with WCGRider and Fees and in a long post ( #1957) said that WCGRider protested his participation was unfair and Jalexand42 accused him of not of not already sending the $25k to Jalexand42. Fees also tried to offer Silent_0ne a $1k buy out saying it was ‘super generous’, it was refused. Silent_0ne states that the reason fees doesn't want his money escrowed by Jalexand42 is that he is afraid that his bet will be forfeited due to breaking the rules. WCGRider chimed in to defend himself (he also spoke about playing 50nl-100nl and having a rough year, which is interesting as he developed into the top HU player for a time and couldn’t get action, even at the highest stakes.) The 2+2 community then debate and lightly harass WCGRider and Fees to concede and send the money to Jalexand42. Fees finally agrees to a 50% buyout.

The Outcome

On the 17th of December and Silent_0ne slips to number 2 on the leaderboards.
  1. vaike $3,835 ,17.44BB/100
  2. Silent_0ne69 $3,523, 4.25BB/100
Silent_0ne then makes a post that changes everything:
Silent_0ne : Hello everyone
firstly, I would like to say thank you so much to everyone who supported me throughout this bet. i cant stress how much it meant to me to see any post wishing me goodluck, or someone pming me given me some life lessons and more encouragement.
ive been approached by the bettors on numerous occasions regarding a buyout. the original buyout deal offered was 33%. eventually 37% was offered, and then 44%, and finally I agreed on 50% of total wagers from all 6 bettors as their buyout.
I am not really satisfied with a buyout, and I was not the one originally looking for the buyout. the bettors wanted it and I decided to see what they had to offer. what I wanted was time to spend with friends and family throughout the christmas break. With continuing this bet, I do have alot of confidence of accomplishing it, but at the expense of isolation through one of the most special times of each year. My family was mad at me when I tried explaining to them I probably wouldn't be able to particpate in any family events and have much if any celebration of christmas.
my goal the next 14 days was to just grind it out 10 hours each day with breaks inbetween, and sleep. Instead I will be able to go back to my regular, stress free grinding, and shipping 50% of the total wagers after half the month as gone by. In the end, including both the 100nl and 50nl prop bets, I made a net of roughly +20k. The other two options would be risking a net of -20k or a net of +60k. I took the variance free route, and all the bettors did the same thing. None of us wanted to lose the bet obviously, so I think we worked out a fair resolution with this buyout.
I have no hard feelings against fees or wcg rider. Perhaps a different scenerio would have occured if the recent issues did not occur, but thats in the past now and i'm looking forwards to a postive future. (#2511)
So, in the end all the parties involved reached a buyout agreement on the 50nl prop bet. Silent_0ne would stop playing the 50nl prop bet and would be up $20k. The community replies:
Ditch Digger: Silent, nice job. 50% is more than reasonable. (#2516)
kelnel: gg on +20k, u rocked!! (#2520)
shhhnake_eyes: I call this the most anticlimactic finish ever. (#2522)
Link to original thread.
submitted by GiantHorse to HobbyDrama [link] [comments]

Texas Hold'em and Tanks: How Poker Playstyles Predict Pixel Productivity

I got home from work early after my 3 month old desktop decided it was going on quarantine strike even though it's considered an essential industry, so I've decided to give you guys an extra article pecked out on my personal computer while I wait on friends to get online.
Also if you're wondering, Death and Shitbarns won the vote, so I'll get on them soon. Hell, today might be a dump of articles in the end. No, you get a life.
I picked up u/hmm2003 as a Tomato last month or so, and he's been playing with my clan almost daily. It's been going great until last night (I kid, I kid) when he left me hanging late in a match (we won, he got the final kill), but it turned into a great teaching moment about aggression and strategy that quickly morphed into me going on a tangent about online poker and how to read different players. Fast forward to today and my IT troubles left me plenty of to jot down an outline for turning my rant into an article.
As I formulated this article, I really began to like the metaphor between Texas Hold'em and WoT. Every game and every engagement can be treated like a hand of poker within a larger tournament. You rarely go against an opponent with the same size stack as you (health pool), different opponents at the poker table have different betting strategies (alpha), and sometimes the cards just beat you as your opponents 8% likelihood gut-shot straight draw beats your pocket pair you got a set with on the flop (RNG). All that is to say, rarely do you have an even fight before you begin, and that is where your poker play style earns (or loses) all the chips. The site I used to look up opponents when I played online poker religiously in college would rate a player both pre-flop and post flop. You could be Tight or Loose and Passive or Aggressive. For the purposes of this metaphor, I'm using Loose and Tight to refer to a tanker's strategy and positioning, and passive or aggressive to refer to their ability to use their hit points for value against the opponents either through direct or spotting damage. I don't remember all of the colors of fish on the site I used, so if you do and I'm wrong, sue me. Also, no player falls strictly into one category, but overall, they will tend to "revert" to one play style as they get tired or angry.

Calling Station

LOOSE-PASSIVE/LOOSE-PASSIVE
These can be some of your worst players in both poker and tanks. In poker, they will limp into as many flops as they can see, and then they'll check/call to the end with a mid pair. Sometimes they can win monster hands because their lack of understanding value means they can't be bet off a hand, but most times they lose because they can't let anything go. The same is true in tanks, they will seemingly drive into ridiculous scenarios, YOLO and die while accomplishing almost nothing. Many of these players will then turn around a ping the team they left behind wondering why they were alone. There's a certain infamous YouTuber many of you may know who would fall in this category. In the end, most of these players lack a basic understanding of the value of their hit points, will overextend for very little value, and rarely will have a good game. Will they get kills? Most certainly. Will they carry games? Once in a blue moon.

Mouse

TIGHT-PASSIVE/TIGHT-PASSIVE
On the opposite end of the spectrum, we have the mouse. These players are fundamentally better than the Calling Station, but still struggle to succeed. In poker, these players will wait and only bet good starting hands, but they are too timid to get the value out of their hands that they could. This is due to either a lack of understanding of the game and the odds or a lack of ability to read their opponent. The same can be said for tankers. They won't do much that will get them killed early, but their positioning clearly leaves much to be desired. This is your, well, base sniping Maus on Abbey. Not positioned poorly enough early on to get themselves killed, but many of these players won't get themselves into the render range of their opponents in time to be a significant force. They are too scared of being beaten by a better opponent that they won't engage until they are forced to. These players can get kills and even carry the occasional end game when they use their higher health pool to clean up one or two weak reds at the end, but most of the time they either die alone and surrounded or survive in the back with only a minimal amount of damage and rounds fired.

Green Fish

LOOSE-PASSIVE/TIGHT-PASSIVE
These players tend to be too aggressive for their own good early in the game. They see too many flops, but will find a way to get out if they don't get a good hand. Same goes for our tankers. They will push a little too far and relegate themselves to needing to play a conservative second-line game to try to survive to the end. They are better than the above-mentioned classes, but can suffer from "I'm a tank" syndrome as they sit out in the open in their heavy being pelted. If they survive, they typically calm down, but they're so low on health they aren't helping you until they're sure they can get that last shot in for the kill. You know, after you ate that round from the E4 and the M103 with 100 hitpoints bravely rounded that corner and killed him for you.

Blue Fish

TIGHT-AGGRESSIVE/TIGHT-PASSIVE
The Blue Fish is getting better. They know what starting hands are good and have value and bet accordingly. Sadly for them, they don't know much about how to play after the flop and lose the ability to press the advantage. These players might be your high greens to low light blues on the WN8 scale. Many know where to go and how to position their tanks in the general sense, but most lack the killer instinct to make the most of the situation after they run into the enemy. "No plan survives first contact with the enemy," nineteenth-century Prussian military commander Helmuth van Moltke was once quoted. How you react separates the winners from the losers.
These tankers find themselves struggling after they perceive themselves to be at a disadvantage. In a 1v1 scenario with what they consider an equally or over-matched opponent, they can assert themselves well, but tend to lose all direction when they think they're beat and resign themselves to it. With a bit more confidence and the requisite experience, these players will improve over time and find themselves carrying games and leading comebacks. This player will carry games and look like a hero, as long as they think they can, but will crumble mightily when the cards seem to be against them. They find themselves sharing that area on the WN8 scale with our next class.

Red Fish

TIGHT-AGGRESSIVE/LOOSE-AGGRESSIVE
In poker, these people know what starting hands have value. Their problem is an inability to let them go. Maybe you call it bluffing or they're mad they got beat, but they won't let off the throttle when they need to. In WoT, these are the guys that are getting that experience I was talking about. They have over-corrected from the Blue Fish, but it is an important learning step on the way to stardom. These guys typically play well early game, but when their plan goes to shit, they can tend to YOLO it out. I know it may seem backwards to say that they are a step up from the Blue Fish, but I can explain.
These players are beginning to recognize that they aren't always going to win, so they just go balls-out after the enemy like a kamikaze fighter. They don't believe they're making it out alive, so they are damn sure going to try to take you with them. This tanker probably stays in a good spot too long until it has become a death trap. After that point, when they come to the understanding that it's over, they let the tank they can't kill get an extra shot for the opportunity to kill the one shot guy behind. This is a better player with tons of potential, but an inconsistent one. Games will be carried, but games will also be lost on the back of this type of player.

Shark

TIGHT-AGRESSIVE/TIGHT-AGGRESSIVE
Professionals, unicums, greats, money-makers, champions. These are the best players at the table in poker. They know what cards you have almost as soon as you put your chips on the table. They are also your 2000+ WN8 tankers. They will rarely do something dumb, they're almost always one step ahead of their enemies, and they will wear you down even when they're at a disadvantage, and make you question whether you can beat them even if you should. These players will put themselves in a position to do damage early and often until they die or kill everyone they meet. They hold their positions through great use of armor angling, hull down tactics, and shot placement. When they push, typically they know they have a fighting chance if not a decisive advantage, but they aren't afraid to falling back and regrouping to give themselves an advantage later. It can come across as abandoning a team, but what they hope will happen next makes up for that. They will bait the average player into crossing into open territory when they shouldn't, or into a withering line of fire from the tanks behind them. Rarely will they leave a battle full health, but every hit point lost came at a cost to the enemy. No shot went untraded, and most cost the enemy more than was taken. They're almost always near the top of the leader board, and they're always a threat. These players will carry games almost entirely on their own, and can make it look effortless while they do it.
Hope you guys liked this and found it helpful. Maybe one or two of you with poker backgrounds will get what I'm saying, too.
submitted by lm_NER0 to WorldofTanksConsole [link] [comments]

How to play Poker online in Pre-flop round?

How to play Poker online in Pre-flop round?

How to play Poker online in Pre-flop round?Pre-flop is the first round in an online Poker game, so the strategy decides greatly to your winning ability. If you knew about the rules of online Poker but don’t know how to play in the Pre-flop round, this article will guide you. Let’s learn more with us!The strategy and the way which you are using are influenced by many factors such as:
  1. How is your position on the table?
  2. Who is your opponents?
3.What happened before your turn? (Did everyone fold? Or did someone take action first?)
  1. How many chips do you currently have?
Playing online Poker is not simply a matter of picking strong games to play and waiting for winning. If it was simple, every players have a lot of money.
  1. How is your position on the table?
The position on the table is very important for deciding to play a game. But how? And How to understand these positions? Let’s see a Poker table below to know about the positions:As you can see that the positions on the table are decided by Dealer’s position. In classic Poker, the player who is in the Dealer’s position will have to deal cards. However, in current online casinos, there will be a person who is appointed a Dealer and does not participate in the game. However, a player will receive a dealer chip and it will be moved to the left after each round.From the left of Dealer’s position, we have: SB (Small-blind), BB (Big-blind), UTG (under-the-gun), MP (middle-position), CO (cut-off) is located to the right of the dealer. In Pre-flop, UTG is the first action. After flop, the player at SB will act if he doesn’t fold.
  1. Try to play when you have a good position
Another important way you need to know is to try to play when you have a good position. The first player to act in Poker is a major disadvantage and it is also known as an “out-of-position”. At that time, you have given away your card information and your opponent can observe what you do before taking action. The next positions are encouraged to play and the Dealer’s position is considered a convenient position on the table because you will ensure a good position from the flop. Position is not the only thing considered, we need to consider the previous actions in the game.
  1. Pre-action
This is some action that can appear before you start:- Everyone fold cards.- Someone raise bet- A player or many players limpFor example, if all previous players fold cards and you are the first one to raise the bet, it is called open-raising. It will be an advice if you want to play a game that you want to start raising your bet. Many players will instinctively open limp but it will be difficult to make a profit for you. The reason is that every time you raise a bet, you have a good chance when all other players fold cards. If you are open - limp, you should bring to your opponents a chance to enter the flop round and make their cards stronger than you. How much should you raise your bets? About 3-4 times the amount of big-blind is fine. In the last position, such as "Button" you can increase your bets by 2.5bb or 2bb, while in the top positions or with strong cards you can choose to increase your bet to 5bb. If one or more limp players, it is a good condition for you to increase bets. There are some situations that you should limp, for example if you have a small pair, but normally you should raise your bets. Raising the bet according to the Slimp is called "isolation raise", or iso-raise for short. So, how much should you raise your bets in this case? The bet amount is similar to the first situation, but adds 1bb compared to other limp players. For example, there are two players limp before you, and you are in the button position, then normally you will raise the bet to 3bb. Now you will raise the bet to 3bb + 1bb + 1bb, the sum is 5bb.
  1. Instructions for playing online Poker in another Pre-flop
The starting hand map is a hint at the start - but it's not a long-term strategy for you to follow. Within a few weeks (depending on the amount of time you play), you should decide for yourself which card to play and a good idea that will make a decent profit.Another factor which will make a big difference is the amount of chips you that you can bring into the game. The players can buy different amounts of chips as it will affect the hand they play.The amounts of chips of some games: 2-40b0b Short-Stack Strategy5b0b Mid-Stack Strategy100bb Big-Stack Strategy200bb Deep-Stack StrategyIt will be helpful if you know how to play with different amounts of chips. Even if you buy 100bb to play with a 20bb opponent, you will need to adjust the strategy more suitable. The advice is that you should learn how to play online Poker with 100bb - the popular playing strategy now. The last thing is to observe the other opponents on the table. If the other players who play after you are aggressive, you can raise your bets less. In another game, if they are tight and often fold cards, you can consider raising the bet more.

Consider

Above are guidelines for playing online Poker when play online casino Singapore. This article is very useful for both beginners and professional players. Therefore, we believe that if you apply these tips into your next game, you will win the big money.
submitted by cashbet168 to u/cashbet168 [link] [comments]

When to CBet

Does anyone have any good resources or strategy regarding learning what flops to c bet after opening the action pre flop? As a relatively new player I sometimes find myself blindly raising flops that I miss simply because I was the pre flop aggressor, a strategy I know to be easily exploitable.
submitted by Samgod007 to poker [link] [comments]

Critique my hold'em strategy spreadsheet!

I'm a beginner at advanced poker strategy, still learning about it. Recently I've been playing 7-person hold'em tournaments online with friends. I made the below spreadsheet for myself to figure out a some things pre-game: my opening ranges, and some strategy relating to the blind structure.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vR8bsZCSE7PufDqvGs9O9KMv1xLzE53I2TYslnstNQhTIZshCeSlzkdGHRTVn6DfW-ZTpT72p94ekMz/pubhtml#
Those of you who are more experienced / expert with poker strategy than I am, I would love to hear your thoughts on the parts of my strategy visible in this spreadsheet.
First, a few things that may be helpful for you to know:
Really looking forward to anyone's thoughts / critiques!
submitted by expertisecatchingnet to poker [link] [comments]

Poker Game theory question

So I've been getting more into poker and into game theory and poker's relation to game theory, etc. One of the things I've noticed is that in my games with experienced players, pinpointing opponent's hands based on position and bet size actually seems to work pretty well. However, I've noticed it doesn't help me at all when I'm playing against more casual opponents. Applying the same strategy against opponents that don't act as "rationally" with hands pre-flop or otherwise, I find that I end up losing on river cards randomly more often than I'd like to just random whatevers. The way I've gotten around it is by playing much much more conservatively which usually keeps me in much longer and winning a portion of the prize money, but I can't help but feel a lot of times I'm leaving money on the table.
Any advice? Is this just because I'm bad or is this a commonly experienced phenomenon?
I should specify I'm referring to Hold 'Em specifically
submitted by doctah_Y to poker [link] [comments]

Common Poker Mistakes

#1 – Obsessively Defending Blinds

Many players are obsessive about defending their blinds. They allow their egos to convince them that it is wimp poker to be pushed off their blinds. Others feel that they have already made a down payment by way of the cost of the blind so they are getting a bargain. There are also obsessive blind stealers out there. For this reason you will hear time and time again it is imperative to gain knowledge about your opponents’ tendencies. Constantly defending your blinds with weak holdings is detrimental to your poker bankroll. If you demonstrate the discipline to fold those weak holdings you accomplish two significant upsides. First, you will save the chips that would have, in all likelihood, been frittered away by defending. Secondly, you will embolden the stealers to continue their attempts at larceny and they will begin to lower their stealing standards as you “train” them to recognize what a pushover you are. Then when you do have a quality holding you can surprise them by playing back.

#2 – Cold Calling Raises

Cold calling is the act of calling more than one player’s raise at once. If one opponent raises and then another re-raises and you just call, you are cold calling. It is a very weak play that indicates either timidity and/or a lack of discipline. Possessing either of these weak traits does not bode well for success. Generally, if your holding is not worthy of a re-raise it should be dumped. The mind set you should begin embracing is to consider the act of calling to be the last choice of possible actions. Patience and discipline should be exercised as it will lead to selective aggression which in turn should translate to profits. Of course, if you’re slow-playing to set a trap with a monster hand that would be quite a different matter.

#3 – Over Calling

This error is similar to #2 as it is a weak play and shows a lack of discipline. Over calling is to call a bet that a player or players to your right have already called. The classic example is a pre-flop limp fest and in that situation it can be correct with a hand that plays well in a large field. A small pocket pair or suited connectors would be two examples. However, post flop if you have third pair and it is bet and called in front of you then you need to come to grips with the obvious, which is – you are behind. Throw that loser in the muck and wait for a better opportunity.

#4 – Semi-Stealth-Tilt

We all know that tilt can be defined as playing poorly due an emotional state brought on by losing in a perceived unfair manner. It is exemplified by super aggressive play that is a desperate attempt to get even or punish the player who has inflicted the pain. Emotionally grounded players don’t usually go on tilt – or at least they don’t think they do. Semi-Stealth-Tilt or SST is a more insidious form of this malady. Semi – because it isn’t full blown tilt but just leaning towards tilt. Stealth – because it sneaks up on you in degrees, so slowly that you can be tilting for hours without even realizing it. This is somewhat common to intermediate players as they have advanced to a skill level that they sometimes put their game on auto pilot. So, maybe SST is not brought on by a series of losing hands but it results in the same impaired or diminished judgment that classic tilt exemplifies. Make it a habit to constantly monitor your game for SST so as not to fall prey to its negative impact on your results. Basically, you need to keep your head in the game at all times to make informed decisions.

#5 – Fancy Play Syndrome

The phrase fancy play syndrome or FPS was first introduced by the prolific poker writer Mike Caro many years ago. It is still as relevant as it was when first introduced to the public. Basically it relates to the desire to utilize the “fancy” or more complicated play rather than straight forward play primarily to be perceived by opponents as a super savvy, expert poker player. The old ego can really get some players into trouble. Although much of winning poker is about deception, going out of your way to take the fancy or tricky route instead of straight forward play is not a long term winning strategy. A classic example of FPS earning a negative result is slow-playing less than a monster hand thereby allowing an opponent to draw out and beat you. Most of the time straight forward, solid, aggressive play is your best course of action.
submitted by PresentType to PkvQQtheinfods [link] [comments]

Cash games with low skill friends

So I try to play straight up conservative when I play with my friends. We all play every hands with little to any pre flop raises. We really just bet on the flop. What’s the best strategy here? Play aggressive every single hand? Or just play it out and wait?
submitted by dgru22 to poker [link] [comments]

New player question about large bet bullying

I don't think "bullying" is the right word to describe it but I couldn't think of anything better.
How our poker night works:
We've played about 4 times and one person always ends up with usually twice as many chips as the next person. The most recent night, one person lost all of their initial buy in chips to a single person within 20mins of playing.
The person with the large amount of chips then proceeds to bully the rest of us into playing extremely conservative by putting up bets or raises against anything.
For example, the guy would bet the lowest players amount of chips pre-flop and if anyone took him on they'd be forced to go all in while he still has twice as many chips left over if he loses but rarely is anyone willing to take the risk.
I'm unsure how to beat that strategy.
submitted by GravityRayGun to poker [link] [comments]

1/2 Live hand review, Did I play this hand ok? If not, How Can I play this hand better in the future?

Hero has been at the table for an hour and a half and playing tight, Villain 1 is TAG and Villain 2 is LAG. Hero has $300, Villain 1 is the effective stack at $140-150
Hero is UTG+1, Villain 1 is in the Cut-off, Villain 2 is in the SB
Action: UTG folds, Hero raises to $7 with As Js, folds around to V1 who calls, V2 calls, and BB calls
Pot: $28
Flop: 8s 5c 4s
V2 checks, BB checks, Hero checks, V1 bets $15. V2 calls, BB folds, Hero calls
Pot: $73
Turn Ad
Action: V1 checks, Hero checks, V1 checks
Pot: $73
River: 3c
Action: Hero bets $20, V1 folds, V2 calls and mucks
Pot: $113 (-$8 rake)
Thought process during the hand: Although I think my sizing pre-flop may have been a bit small, $7 had been the standard opening size all night long and I prefer to keep opening raises a bit on the smaller side from Early Position, if it had been in later position I would usually raise $9-10.
On the flop, I don't know if C-betting or checking is the best line to take with 3 other players in the hand. I have 2 overs and the nut flush draw, and I can rep overpair by betting here, so I'm thinking I misplayed this street by checking behind with 2 checks already in front of me and could have bet around $20. Thoughts?
On the turn, I turned top pair with NFD and checked for pot control, but looking back I'm thinking I could have lead into V1 for $50 or so and got either V1 or V2 to call (V1 later told me he had a pair with a flush draw as well)
On the river, after getting checked through on the turn, I realize I almost certainly have the best hand at this point and decide to go for value, but feel my sizing was small and I could have gone about $35-40.
I feel like I played this hand about as shitty as I possibly could looking back, and I'm trying to stop being such a nit with my cards, any advice on this would be appreciated.
submitted by AK-Suited to poker [link] [comments]

My first 100 hours playing $2/$5. Four things I did to get me to where I am.

My first 100 hours playing $2/$5. Four things I did to get me to where I am.
Two months ago I decided I was ready for real this time. After being a $1/$2 rec for years, I attempted to climb out of the sludge that is the lowest live stakes and into the next level.
I had taken one unsuccessful shot at $2/$5 before, exactly about a year ago. (See my post history for a hand history from that session that demonstrates how inexperienced I was lol.) Getting felted for $700 at that time traumatized me - that’s over two full $1/$2 buy ins! It immediately sent me back to $1/$2 with my tail between my legs.
I remember feeling nervous again at that first $2/$5 table, similar to how I felt when I played my first live session years ago. Imposter Syndrome kicked in the instant the dealer corrected me, explaining that I had to bet in increments of $5. I was thinking, “These regs are gonna see right through my facade and are licking their lips at a juicy $1/$2 fishy who swam over to the table. I probably look like the tourists from that Rounders scene.”
Well, that was then, and a year later, (and hours and hours of podcasts and audiobooks in the car) I actually felt confident at the prospect of playing $2/$5. This time was going to be different - it was calculated and justified. I wasn’t shot taking after a nice $1/$2 session - I was entering a game where I wouldn’t be playing with scared money. I had a bankroll built up from diligently grinding the lowest stakes here and there (married and have a 9-5 job so my poker time is limited) and I could stomach several max buy in busts at $2/$5 without feeling absolutely shattered. So, armed with that security buffer, I began playing $2/$5 regularly.
Here are the results of my first 100 hours of playing $2/$5
Okay. I proved (to myself, at least) that I can do this. In the grand scheme of poker, I’m still “only” a $2/$5 player, but I feel I can share what worked for me to $1/$2 regs who are looking to move up but can’t get over the hump. I know that I could have benefitted from insight when I was at that stage. I’ll document them in four points:
1) I used a bankroll tracker to keep myself honest about my skills. Never lied to myself.
I’m surprised more self-declared regs don’t use one. I think it’s my personality but the idea of not having this data is extremely uncomfortable. I personally use Poker Income on my iPhone. Every single dollar I use for poker is logged. I don’t just log profits for sessions; I track how much I bought in for and how much I cashed out for. The app does all the calculations for you - the only thing you have to manually input is buy in amount, cashed out amount, and when you begin and end a session.
The value of this is a concise, honest, summary of my results. Wins feel more fulfilling when logged in green. And the pain of losses will feel more permanent when inked in red. But that’s okay since nobody else has to read it - it’s for my eyes only. If you’ve ever heard or read someone say “Yeah, so I probably would rate myself winning player” and they assert it more as an assessment or opinion of their game, they likely are just speculating because they don’t know. They don’t know because they can’t know - how would they without logging anything?
2) I separated my bankroll from my life roll. Literally stored the money elsewhere.
Okay, this isn’t really a rule, and I don’t want to impose anything on anyone. I’m not here to tell anyone what to do with their money - I’m simply sharing what worked for me. For me, the idea of dipping into my “life money” was off-putting. It felt like cheating, and an easy way to conflate my bankroll with my talent. I don’t want to overrate my own skills in poker (or in anything, for that matter) so I literally got a box to put my poker profits in. The box had one rule: no money in from anywhere besides poker. Ever. Doing that even once would forever compromise the integrity of my bankroll. I could withdraw from the box, but even that I didn’t really like to do.
This box allowed me to desensitize myself to the value of money when sitting at the poker table. It allowed me during my grinds to face a significant river bet and NOT think “Oh my god oh my god that’s a lot of money I’m gonna feel horrible if I’m wrong” and instead focus on “Does Villain want me to fold or call? His line doesn’t make sense; he can’t have a six here. I call.”
Plus, having a stack of cash stashed away feels kinda baller.
3) I read and studied the mental game just as much as I studied strategy.
Jared Tendler’s The Mental Game of Poker is my bible. I pirated the book at first, and then out of respect for its content’s quality I eventually bought a physical copy, a digital copy, and an audio version. For the money Jared’s earned (saved?) me over my poker life, I’m happy to give him the price of his book three times and call it even, even though that’s a horribly unfair exchange to him.
I really have to emphasize how much his content resonates with me - I just don’t care if I lose pots anymore on suckouts. I’m not saying that I’m gritting my teeth and inwardly consoling myself by repeating “It’s okay, it’s okay, shake it off.” I am saying that I. Actually. Do. Not. Care. I accept it; I expect it, and I understand it’s what poker is, so I don’t waste valuable mental energy lamenting it.
4) I became comfortable with folding preflop.
The only actual poker strategy I’ll list, since I don’t feel qualified to give strategy advice. This is more of a cash game application than for tournaments. My regiment at the table when I’m on my A-game: Fold pre. Fold it without grimacing. And then fold again, and then fold hand after that. Then wait for the next hand when I’ll be on the button. UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, middle position raises 3x, CO calls, and I look down at Q9o and think about how fucking awesome it’d be to flop a rainbow straight in a multiway pot. And I fold it.
This is not being a nitty OMC - OMCs don’t open and they limp fold too much. This is gaining more credit from my opponents (whether consciously or subconsciously) to my hand strengths when I do open. Again, I want to re-emphasize that this isn’t necessarily optimal poker strategy - it’s just what I did.

So yeah, that’s it. Four things I did. Dunno really what the point of this post is, to be honest. I admit it’s partially just for myself and to document an interesting point in my poker journey. If this provides value to anyone else, then that’s great. If it doesn’t, then that’s okay too. Hope it didn’t come off as vain or humble bragging. This is just what happened to work for me, and that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s optimal for everyone. I feel like I’m proof that one can play poker as a hobby and still be decently profitable.
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When and How Much to 3-Bet from Out of Position - Poker Strategy You Need to Know Mastering the Fundamentals: Preflop Strategy Use 3-Bets to CRUSH Cash Games! Raising with top set? 4 betting pre? Live Poker Vlog! 2/5 NL hand analysis! Detroit Poker Vlog 13! Playing Preflop Poker The RIGHT Way  SplitSuit

Postflop poker strategy Tip 5: Do not cbet on board textures where your opponent is likely to call, and you have little chance of improving on later streets Continuation bets can also apply to the turn and the river. For example, we refer to betting the flop, turn and river as river continuation bet. Pre-flop poker strategy. Preflop is a crucial round for players. This is where they need to establish their strength in relation to their opponents and set a course for the hand. If you read any strategy books written by some of the game's best players you'll notice a common theme in what they say about pre-flop play: "Play tight, but be aggressive" (David Sklansky), "Play If stack sizes get below 50 big blinds, you will need to switch to a mid or short stack strategy. Incidentally, I am a short and mid-stack specialist. If you are interested in getting a free full basic strategy that includes both pre-flop and post-flop, sign up for my newsletter. I will instantly email you the free comprehensive strategy. Pre-Flop Holdem Strategy: Your First Chance to Get a Read. It also means that the betting has been reopened. The original raiser is going to call, fold or push all-in. Unless it was a strict bluff the original raiser will almost never fold in this situation.

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When and How Much to 3-Bet from Out of Position - Poker Strategy You Need to Know

In this video, I will teach you how to use solid ranges, optimal raise sizes, & common exploits to make more money from out of position! For ALL of my 3-betting ranges, Check out my FREE PREFLOP ... - Optimal 3-Bet Sizes - Key Exploits - Post-Flop Play Through In-Depth Hand Examples To take my 3-Betting Concepts Quiz: ... In-Depth Poker Strategy Videos, A Little Coffee, and much more! Hey, I'm Professional Poker Player Nicky Numbers, and today I'm going to explain a little bit about some of the considerations that should go into your pre-flop strategy. Raising with top set? 4 betting pre? Live Poker Vlog! 2/5 NL hand analysis! ... $1/$2 No Limit Holdem Poker Strategy - Duration: 10:11. Detroit Poker 18,943 views. ... Flop a monster with 6-5s ... The flop is three cards, the turn is one card, and the river is one card. There are four rounds of betting: pre-flop, flop, turn, and river. The player with the best five-card hand wins.